In recognition of the 100th anniversary, Mr. Ipsum and I watched a DVD of James Cameron’s Titanic last night. It was the first time either of us had seen it since the original release, and the first time we had seen it together.
There is a scene where First Officer Murdoch shoots two passengers while trying to restore order, and then shoots himself. My husband mentioned having heard that Cameron had to apologize for that scene when Murdoch’s family complained that it was untrue. I said, “No, Cameron didn’t make that up. I saw it in another Titanic movie too.”
But when I checked online, I found that he was right. Murdoch’s nephew complained after seeing the movie, and an executive at Fox made an apology and donation to a memorial fund.
But I still can’t help feeling that this scene, or something like it, was already done in another Titanic movie. Sometime in the late 80s or early 90s (when I was a tween or teen) I saw part of one of the 1950s Titanic movies on TV. I don’t know if it was “Titanic” (1953) or “A Night to Remember” (1958). If it will help to identify it, I remember a scene where a woman is offered a spot on a lifeboat, but she declines, saying (almost with a smile) that she would rather die with her husband than leave him. I could have sworn that this movie also had a scene of a ship’s officer shooting a passenger and then himself. Does anyone remember this too, or did my brain just make it up?
The couple is most likely Isidor and Ida Straus. They have been portrayed in many movies including A Night to Remember, both Titanics, and SOS Titanic. I don’t know if the shooting was in *ANtR * though.
Going strictly from memory, when Titanic first came out I remember Cameron saying that Murdoch’s body was never found, and that (maybe) there were some stories of crew suicides, so the idea being that although it was not necessarily based on fact, it was at least plausible.
I just saw A Night To Remember last night (and ‘97 Titanic again last week) and both show Murdoch shooting up in the air to get the passengers’ attention when there’s a near riot. Only Titanic shows Murdoch shooting a (I only remember seeing one) passenger, and then killing himself. Whatever you saw, it wasn’t in A Night To Remember.
Does anybody else find it somewhat eyer:rolleyes:lling that nephews and nieces (actually grand and great-grandnieces and nephews) 85 years after the fact who never thew the person could claim to be that upset? I know the siblings of some of my great-uncles and just wouldn’t really get that worked up if a movie got something wrong about them.
The Straus’s were heroes that evening. He would not be seated before the younger men, she would not leave him. She also gave her mink to her maid, telling her “I don’t think I will need it”. (History is unclear as to whether the maid asked “How about the diamonds, or do you think they’ll serve as flotation devices?”)
For anybody interested, a very good quality film of the complete Broadway musical TITANIC is available on YouTube. Part 1. The show is a half-sibling of the musical 1776 and like that musical features many historical characters in the play, including Isidor and Ira Strauss.
I know what you mean. My Mom once talked to me about an Uncle she lost in WWI(my Mom’s dad was old when he had her). I told her, “Mom, you were born after…WWII, let alone WWI. He couldn’t mean that much to you.”
I think regardless of the relatives it’s probably not correct to portray a real person doing something there appears to be no evidence for and in particular when it shows them potentially in a bad light. As this thread demonstrates the film kind of becomes the history people know.
It’s more about respect for the person themselves than their relatives. Murdoch will now be remembered by most as the guy that shot passengers on the Titanic which hardly seems fair if it’s not true.
Of course I am sure this sort of thing goes on all the time in films based on true stories.
The part about shooting passengers, Cameron made up out of whole cloth. The suicide had appeared in a previous Titanic movie–the 1996 made-for-TV miniseries. I’ve seen some but not all of the miniseries. It had a lot of famous although somewhat washed-up people in the cast. What I saw didn’t look too bad, but as soon as the Cameron blockbuster came out it was forgotten.
No, I don’t find it eyerolling at all. I’m shocked that a person like yourself, who posts frequently on historical topics, would take such a cavalier attitude toward the defamation of a historic figure. By all accounts Murdoch behaved bravely and honorably as the Titanic went down. Cameron’s depiction was a gross insult. I’m glad that somebody spoke up in Murdoch’s defense.
I understand this far better than the guy who went back to court to get a judgement that his ancestors were really free and not legally slaves, because the court case at the time is left unresolved and it’s, like, important, or something.
If someone falsely connected the “McCelt” name with such a heinous act, I’d be extremely upset. If it was in reference to a person to whom I had a close enough relationship to be justified in taking legal action on their behalf - and they were no longer around to, or able to do so for themselves - I’d certainly be taking legal action to put a stop to it.
In creating a fictionalized film or book about an actual historical event, I think, if you’re going to use a real name for a secondary character, it’s incumbent upon you not to make up bad stuff about that character. Just rename him, if you must.
In regard to the question as to whether the shooting has been portrayed in previous films, it was included in the 1996 ‘The Titanic’ which was hurried into production to cash in and likely based on early drafts of Cameron’s script then in production, and thus also included the shooting/suicide scene.
There are many who allege that there "is no evidence"when in actual fact Cameron’s depiction is based on quite a number of eyewitness evidence of a shooting/suicide by an officer during the launching of the last lifeboat.
In fact it is more a case of who rather than what, and at present there has been no evidence to be able to remove Murdoch from the list of possible officers. Cameron decided to identify Murdoch based on the fact that his name appears the most in the accounts and he was in charge during the iceberg collision and during the launch of the last lifeboat.
For more information on the heroic First Officer Murdoch, and also his celluloid portrayal in other films please visit www.williammurdoch.net which has constantly updated information present in an unbiased manner.
This thread over on the Titanic Historical Society board cites conflicting reports from survivors at the time regarding possible identities of officer(s) committing suicide. A Night to Remember (book, not the movie) discusses crew members firing shots into the air (not at people) to scare off third-class passengers from lifeboats that were being held for first and second-class passengers.
Thanks for that link booklover. Another interesting reference worth checking.
Regarding ANTR -the film also depicts Second Officer Lightoller (Kenneth More) firing his gun into the air. Walter Lord’s sequel to ANTR, entitled The Night Lives On devotes an entire chapter to the eyewitness accounts of Rhiems and Daly, both of whom mention an officer suicide in private correspondence to family (rather than to newspaper reporters)…