2 more shootings in MD. Let's make a profile.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

I’m just mentioning what the police and ATF officers have said. This has been a big point of discussion with both of them - that the shooter is taking only one shot and is hitting his victims with such precision.

Quote from a Washington Post article:

"But shooting from that distance is difficult with the type of .223-caliber bullets used, experts said, particularly if a scope was not used.

If it’s a scope rifle, you can shoot . . . 150 to 175 yards without too much difficulty," said a member of a shooting range who spoke on the condition that he not be identified. “But this guy’s probably been practicing somewhere.’”

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think this guy just didn’t go out on Tuesday of last week and buy a gun and then start shooting at a storefront and the guy at Shopper’s Food Warehouse the following day. I don’t think he’s an amazing marksman but definitely has some experience with the weapon he’s using. Enough so to hit people in the head/chest and kill them with one shot. I wouldn’t be able to hit the side of a barn and I think a guy who just purchased a gun, wouldn’t be able to do so, either.

And I think that says something about the killer. I don’t think this guy acted spontaneously (go buy gun, go shoot people same day) but, instead, methodically.

62

trishdish (love the name, btw), I’m just of the opinion that I won’t let this change my everyday attitude. If they want to shoot me, fine. Shoot me. Whatever. What the heck am I gonna do about it?

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Dantheman, I’m trying to take the same tact, honestly. I haven’t altered my routine - which includes taking my dogs for a walk behind a MIDDLE SCHOOL next to a wooded area.

It’s easy to be afraid but you have to make a choice as to how that fear is going to affect you.

It is kind of strange when you look at the map of the shootings and you can form a triangle from the Oct. 2nd shooting at Shoppers Food Warehouse, to the woman shot as she was vacuuming her minivan at a gas station the next morning , to the man shot in DC that night and your house is in the middle of that triangle like mine is.

65

Hmm, I didn’t think about that. Thanks. I think this must be someone who owns his own truck, maybe a small family-run business. I can’t see how a company would keep it under wraps and if a truck had been stolen recently I’m sure it would have been checked up on.

But having said that, I wonder if this person is still making delivieries in the area. If so, they had to have changed the truck or their customers would easily be able to see and call the police. I wonder if they’ve checked small businesses that have recently closed down?

These trucks are very,very common in the Metro DC area. Well actually all over the country I’d venture a guess. If the police were to try and run down the owners/operator of all the white box trucks they’d easily have hundreds if not thousands to look at.

66

That’s why it’s such a needle-in-a-haystack sort of lead. On the day of the shootings, on Thursday, I saw 3 trucks of this type being pulled over by police on my way home from work. And I only work about 15 minutes away from my house. I guess they were putting bright orange stickers (normally used to designate cars to be towed) on the trucks that had been checked out.

67

This makes me think hollow point or soft point, maybe even fragmentary (did black talon make a .223 round? I don’t think they did.). This only confirms one thing. Gun nut. It certainly would explain the one shot one kill, these types of rounds are meant to spread out or shatter upon impact. Nice little hole in front, basketball sized hole back.

As far as a box truck with damage to the rear…Look around. Alot of them do. They back into loading docks all day. They back up to doors, they back up to other trucks. That, added to the fact that the drivers are rarely the owners, a “go till you feel it” method of reversing is fairly common.

68

No. Black Talons do not disintergrate on impact, they are designed to open on impact with sharp points to create a much greater wound channel. And you are correct, they are a handgun round. Most hunting rounds mushroom on impact to deliver as much kinetic energy to the target as possible and do not leave an exit wound.

69

That is probably the difference between hand guns and rifles. Handguns are designed for sport and to kill people whereas rifles are used for hunting food.

It is interesting all the people who have mentioned Timothy McVeigh. I thought of him as well when I first saw this but then I thought that this type of thing doesn’t seem to be militia oriented. My reasoning behind the no-militia connection is fairly simple, I believe most militias out there are more interested in proclaiming their own sovereignty and are typically aimed at stopping big government. Gunning down random people doesn’t really speak to that ends to me. It just sounds like some nut running around and taking the opportunities when he believes he is most likely to get away.

Dantheman said something along the lines of there being the same chance of him being killed by a spree killer as there were before.

I would have to agree with you, the chance would be the same if you used the entire country as a basis but since we are in a fairly localized area I think our chances have gone up significantly. I still won’t be altering my daily routines. He will not take that power over me.

I am thinking that this guy will do himself in. He may not actually go out in an all out shoot out with the police/FBI/ATF or anything. I have the impression that he has fairly few close friends but out of those he tends to be a braggart. He shows off his skills and will later tell his friends what he did and will then get turned in. His friends, in my opinion, will be pseudo-military dorks (the people who were in ROTC in high school but never went farther) and sci-fi geeks.

70

I’m just thinking of the old lightning-striking philosophy - if there was a big spree in one area at one point, what are the chances that the same place will have a big spree immediately after? My guess would be that the odds would be lowered, not raised.

I do think it’s one individual acting alone, but maybe he’s a renegade member of a militia with his own score to settle, or maybe he’s just a complete loon who fits no actual profile.

71

Trishdish, I think we’re on the same page. It’s obvious that the shooter didn’t just pick up a gun for the first time the day before beginning his murder spree. The shooter is probably using every advantage, that’s just common sense. He’s probably using a scoped bolt action rifle as they are innocuous and widely available. He’s probably shooting from a rest of some kind like a bipod in a prone or seated position. This makes for easier concealment and a steadier shot. Under conditions like that even a relative novice can hit soda cans at the ranges we’re talking about.

As for bullets ordinary FMJ (full metal jacket) bullets as used in issue military ammunition can cause very devastating wounds. The shape and center of mass make the bullet prone to tumble when it hits a target. It still has very high velocity at the ranges we’re talking about and can do more than enough damage without a hollow or soft point. There are soft point bullets in that caliber and they are typically used for “varminting”, shooting agricultural pests. The only hollow point bullets I’ve seen in .22 caliber are not designed to expand, but rather for extreme precision shooting, trying to hit a quarter at 200 yards.

72

My $0.02:

This guy isn’t a racist, as he doesn’t seem to pick on one race.

Beyond that, I haven’t a clue. I do think he’s probably white though. Blacks don’t usually go on sprees like this. Only one I can think of was a rampage killing in a NYC subway a few years back.

73

If he were a mental midget, they would’ve already caught the guy.

I stand by my earlier comment that describes this monster as a mental midget. If this person had the ability to aspire to higher levels of thinking, this would be shown. What we have here is diminished reasoning ability. This behavior is imo, unreasonable.

74

I’m with An Arky and CalMeacham. And I think it is more than one person and more than one vehicle. This is an excellent way to let people know that they can strike whoever, wherever, and whenever they want and there is nothing we can do about it. And of course they would choose this area for the high visuals. These people are sophisticated (albiet fanatics and misguided) about human psychology; after all, they have millions of people deluded into thinking that it’s a spiritual command to kill anyone who doesn’t think the way they do. I mean, how stupid can you get? and yet, they actually think this way. They actually think there will be a reward in heaven for randomly killing people. The bottom line is that once they make their point they will allow themselves to be caught so they can make the most of their “success” to the idiots who admire them. The lunatics are running the asylum when it comes to this distorted version of Islam.

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Out of curiosity with the type of weapon being used (to the best of our knowledge) how fast are the rounds moving? Basically I want to know if you’ll hear the shot before the round arrives. I imagine distance plays several roles that can have an effect on the answer; i.e. round slows down further it goes. I don’t have a theory or anything, just curiosity like I said.

Also are there any rifles that fire the round used that are collapsible? Seems that if this guy (or guys) wants to move around unnoticed then having a weapon that he can condense and hide under a jacket would be a good idea. He’s shot from woods at least twice which means he then had to make back to his vehicle and leave before the police arrives, and a guy walking around with a rifle in this area is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Back to the profile:

I doubt that it is more than one or two people.

For one thing in order for it to be more than one or two these people would have to find each other, plan this out to no participant’s objection, then hope no one brags or does anything stupid like make a taunting call to the police. I’m aware that psychos have a way of finding psychos, but c’mon, three or more acting together? I sincerely doubt that if they’re solely thrill or serial killers. Thrill killers would have to find other people with a psychopathic disregard for human life and serial killers would have to find people with the same severe mental interest as their own.

Also take a look at the time of the attacks: during morning rush hour into the early night. Whoever is doing this is either sleeping or working at night. If it was multiple people they’d likely do at least a few shootings at night to throw the police off even more when they try to profile them.

Finally the profile fits only one or two killers simply because of history. The majority of previous killing sprees usually had two people max involved. Sure this case could break the trend but it strikes me as wiser to go with what seems to be the more likely case.

Also who was seriously talking about these killings being done for religious or political motivations? Now, not later, would be a great time to take credit for these actions and get their message out when people are the most afraid and paying the most attention. Not after they’ve been captured and guaranteed a sit down in ol’ sparky.

76

And to make things more interesting the bastard left a note.

It said “Dear policeman, I am God.” and it was found with a Death tarot card. Looks to me that it’s one killer. So far the only motivation that seems reasonable is a spree killer and if it’s more than one I doubt they’d like the other hogging all the credit.

77

Padeye, you really know your stuff about guns. I’m totally clueless when it comes to them so reading what you wrote is very enlightening to me.

78

**My Guess **

sex - male
Age - 18-25
Back ground - broken home (divorce via cheating. Dad was controlling. Mom had to go on welfare to support brood giving first indication of how poorly the system is and how THE MAN is keeping HIM down, etc.)

This is a young white male(s) who has anger management issues, who is rather intelligent, yet a bit of a dork with poor social interacting skills and has always been on the outside. Not really understood and because of social quirks, has a problem keeping jobs. Probably failed a military stint, but excelled in certain areas ( like marksmenship). Was gung ho in Military, but considered not a team player. Has zero love life. Guns and survival stuff are his life.

Involved in either an Left/ Right Wing Militia group or Anti-Government Group or had some dealings with Aryans before becoming disgruntled with “jews and blacks are at fault.” In this guys mind, it is a) everyone’s fault that he is a dork/loner/unsuccessful b) proving his Left/Right Wing/Anti-Gov views that the authorities are just a bunch of knuckle heads.
Dreams of being in control, when he is probabably a step away from white trash.

If it is one of those white work vans, that are everywhere, he is probably self employed. Electrician, carpenter, plumber. Construction work. Likes to hunt. Hangs out with manly men who talk the manly talk about how the system is screwing them yet no one does anything about it. Views these guys as pussy-whipped and is willing to do something to change everything. This guy has had enough. At 18-25, he still has his New Car Smell and thinks he can make a difference in this world.

Timothy McVeigh comes to mind.

Only, if he (them) are caught, he will either claim he is insane, on drugs or kill himself. Or, state that he is a leader in the New Revolution and will one day be considered a Patriot.

His parents will express *shock * at his actions. " He was always a quiet boy."

**Longshot ** HIs middle name is Wayne or Earl.
As much as I love doing things like this, I really wish stuff like this would not happen.

79

Thanks Trishdish. Lots of people have a vested interest in the topic on both sides so unfortunately a lot of misinformation gets spread around.

FWIW I just watched a Today Show clip with an interview of a BATF agent. I was a bit suprised that he said a lot of the same things I’ve been saying here: that the .223 is very commonplace for both sporting, military and police use and that it was no particular indication the shooter may or may not have military experience. Good to see the ATF fighting ignorance too.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/816566.asp has a link to the video clip.

Unfortunately in the text of the article later says “Police say the weapon was probably an assault rifle or a hunting rifle accurate up to 730 yards, the length of more than seven football fields.” While I can’t say this is an absolute wrong statement it’s more false than true. The bullet used by the .223 doesn’t have a lot of mass as rifle bullets go. It leaves the barrel very fast, over 2,000 miles per hour, but drag causes it to lose velocity fairly quickly giving it a maximum effective range of 4-500 yards under good conditions. The low mass bullet is also effected more by wind making ultra long range shots more difficult.

Military snipers don’t use the .223/5.56mm caliber, they use the 7.62mm also called the .308 Winchester. It uses a .308" diameter bullet as opposed to the .224" bullet in the .223 and has about three times the mass. It has slightly less velocity when leaving the barrel but the greater inertia of the bullet and better sectional density (drag factor) help it keep its velocity for a longer range. Under good conditions it can be used effectively out to a thousand yards. Like the .223 the .308 is extremely common for sport, military and police use and is one of the more common calibers used for hunting.

80

Here is a new article in the Washington Post that “profiles”, somewhat, this sniper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62976-2002Oct8.html