I realize that was mostly joking, but putting those two separate thoughts of mine together make it looks like I wish Gore had won because I am hawk. Please remember to include the ellipses at least.
I do not believe he would have done a better job fighting a war, I simply believe he would not have got us into Iraq in the first place.
Jim
Yeh, well, that’s how primaries work.
Is it even possible to have a meaningful debate about what kind of POTUS Hillary would make without the “unelectable” meme rearing its head? “Oh, yeah, nominate Hillary! That’s just what the Pubs want us to do!”
Can we please choose to disagree on this. I believe most PI lawyers are scum with minimal morals. I believe Mr. Edwards has a shady track record by my own sense of what is proper. No where near as bad a Dick Cheney of course, but far from a good person to be president. I will take an honest businessman like Obama any day. I guess I will show my Republicaness* in saying I am much in favor of Tort-Reform.
Jim
“Truthiness” would be more apt.
There you go, trying to use reality to bolster your arguments. It doesn’t matter what actually happened. It’s all about perception – just ask Kerry or Gore. Limbaugh makes a fortune off this sorta thing. Remember, we’re talking about the United States electorate. Logic bounces off it like bullets into Superman’s chest.
Now, for the miracle I alluded to earlier: Hillary and Obama can’t make it to the election. If either runs the Dems lose. Obama will lose huge*, Hillary will make it close but still lose. Some random Southern/Western Dem with a big jaw (very important) will have to come and steal the spotlight. There’s still a lot of time for this to happen but the Dems have been extremely retarded over the last six years so this is why I would classify such an emergence as a minor miracle.
Disgusted person here. Is this really the kind of rhetoric you commonly use when engaging in political dialectic? In any case, it’s the sort of strident nonsense that keeps me and others like me from taking part in online discussions of serious subjects, and makes me wish, in weaker moments, that the internet had never been invented [insert Al Gore joke here, if you must].
I think a glance at Happy Wanderer’s other posts in this thread will answer your question.
So you are saying they will nominate another pile of wet sand? People ignore my advice at their peril, almost always regretting it. Saying “I told you so” loses its satisfaction after a while, believe it or not. The feeling is replaced with one of futility.
While a lot of smart people hang out here, many seem to lack a sense of humor. I was using a little hyperbole to try and make my point.
I like him, but I also like Gore, Obama, and Wes Clark. I’m not keen on Hillary - what issue has she taken the lead on, in the Senate, besides being against video games? - and the rest of the field can mostly be disregarded for now, though it’s likely that one of them may make a decent showing before losing.
Fortunately for the Dems, Hillary and Obama seem to be fighting over the same chunk of the party, and Obama’s going to suck all the oxygen out of Hillary’s campaign.
I worry about Obama, though, on the ‘electability’ front. And it’s basically about the same thing that brought down Kerry - the question of how he will respond when the mudslinging and Swiftboating starts. Like it or not, Obama’s never been in a tight race for anything above state legislature, and I don’t even know if he’s been in one there. He had the good fortune to run against Alan Keyes for U.S. Senate.
I know the game Obama is playing - he’s trying to do the “let’s rise above our petty partisan conflicts and find solutions to our problems that everybody will love” game, and it’s a good one as far as it goes. But if he becomes the Presidential nominee, the partisan attacks will find him, ready or not. And if he’s not ready to fight back, fast and hard, then he loses, and the GOP keeps the White House for another four years.
That’s why I want Gore. He’s been through this before, knows what’s coming at him.
[The Music Man]
The sadder but wiser candidate for me.
[/The Music Man]
Your advice was not bad, it was the "Chairman Mao’s “Little Red Book” chapter and verse … " hyperbole that I think is being complained about. On preview as you mentioned.
I took at as hyperbole, but I think too many Dems are too use to these silly charges being levied against them to not bristle if they are not sure you are being humorous. Use the 
next time maybe.
Jim
No, I’m not. I do think you’ve dismissed two very good candidates (I wouldn’t vote for Hillary, but it would be ridiculous for them to try to exclude her) with a wave of your hand. You’re telling the Democrats “pick someone electable, don’t pick someone like Kerry!” without realizing that the focus on “someone electable” was exactly what led them to Kerry, who they considered experienced and inoffensive.
I’ve never met a person who thought they gave bad advice.
Given a choice between someone who’s highly competent but dull as dishwater, and someone who’s dumber than a box of rocks but is a great pal to go drinking with, I’ll take dishwater every time.
Most of the people who prefer the “likeable” candidate in 2000 eventually came to regret that decision.
Most? Highly unlikely. But the truth is, you can’t possibly know for sure either way. In fact, the only real evidence we have is that Bush got a bigger % of the votes the second time around.
Yes, but you are in the elite SDMB! We are smarter than teh MENSA I tells ya! Or at least slightly less annoying. Most people aren’t like you or I.
And why must we choose between the two? What is wrong with likeable AND smart. Oh yeah, we had Clinton. But even he was kind of an accident for the Democrats. When it was time to be deciding, Bush Sr. looked unbeatable. All the “legitimate” candidates took a bye that year and Clinton kind of got it by default.
Think of it this way. Forget your political party. Would you invite them to a party at your house?
“Honey, should we invite the Kerrys?”
“That longwinded bore? And his wife creeps everybody out. No way hon. We send them a Christmas card, what more do they want!”
Voted for him twice, with nose held twice. If anyone could have made me jump ship, at least temporarily, it was Bush. The Democrats didn’t field a candidate that I felt at all comfortable with either time. Kerry with all his supposed vast intellect was unable to convey a plan anyone could comprehend or even point to details of, and I regard Gore to be insane.
Yeah, I know, I hand out the crazy diagnosis a lot, but on the other hand, I believe most people to be crazy and sanity to be the more unusual state of humanity. Why should politicians be any different? In fact, I can think of several reasons to believe that politicians are MORE likely to be crazy than the average person.
Exactly. What’s wrong with likeable AND smart? Surely there are one or two people besides Bill Clinton in the Democratic party who have both qualities.
Barack Obama is one of those people. Sure, he’s black. Smart, likeable, and black beat dumb, dull, and white every time.
The trouble with the 2004 primary session is that Democrats were convinced that all they had to do was nominate someone who didn’t have any negatives and since he wasn’t George Bush he’d win. I’d rather see a guy with a few negatives balanced by some great positives.
Jesus Christ, can we just get Bill Clinton back? Is that so much to ask? I couldn’t stand Bill when he was in office, but sweet mother of fuck am I wishing he could run again.
And for those who believe that the media doesn’t intentionally do everything within it’s power to promote the agenda, I will relate an event that I was an eyewitness to.
It was a few years ago, when California Governor Grey Davis was up for recall. The media was blatant in their opposition to the recall. Recall supporters were labeled kooks, the modest price of the recall election was called a “waste of money” the LA Times called Ahhnold “The Gropenfuhrer” etc.
I was waiting for a friend in front of the Burbank Airport Hilton when a KNBC4 newsvan screamed up to the entrance, followed by a rented 14 passenger van full of “protesters”. A camera guy jumped out of the newsvan and the protesters jumped out of the rental. The cameraman pulled focus and ON CUE the protesters waved their signs for 20 seconds or so, at which point the cameraman said “Okay, that’s enough.” They jumped back into their respective vehicles and sped off. That night, sure enough in the political block, Paul Moyer was intoning “There was a protest today in Burbank opposing the recall of Governor Grey Davis…”
The hotel is just blocks from KNBC, and i’m pretty sure Channel 4 rented the van, so my only remaining questions are did they get the “protesters” from central casting, and did they all go to lunch afterwards and have a good laugh about how clever they were to manufacture news in order to fool voters?
News is like sausage. If you don’t know how it’s made, you won’t know what evil things are in it.
Having seen Bush’s approval numbers these days, I think it’s a fairly safe guess.
I’m a journalist, actually. Granted that I’m not in TV and have a low opinion of it, but I think I speak for most journalists in saying that your conspiracy-minded views are, at best, cute.