2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa

I am not deluded by our high scoring games and Spain’s harder looking victories; everyone at the Cup considers Spain as the team to beat and everyone knows how Spain is going to play and what’s the best approach to beat their style: they have to deal with opponents who line up two lines of 4 + 2 who press higher or a 1/2 or 3/4 field swarming high pressing defence that runs for its life.

Even the almost perfect Spanish passing system can’t break down such defences easily as long as they don’t score an early goal. Otoh, the opposing teams rely mostly on counterattacks, no one has yet dared to try to impose his game on Spain. This tactic can work pretty well if Spain loses its order temporarily and luck helps the opponent to score on one of their few strikes that will get through (Switzerland). But the high percentage of quality chances created by the Spanish system will usually translate into a goal sooner or later and the opposing team, trapped in its defensive shell, will find it hard to switch to a more challenging and creative play.

Some might think Spain’s play is boring but I am mightily impressed how disciplined and patiently they create their chances and wait for the opening to break through.

In contrast, our last two opponents didn’t consider it necessary to adapt their strategy to deal with us – whereas Serbia and Ghana were more careful. And both made it hard for us. Sure, we still looked good against Serbia despite the red card and Ghana lost – but our system showed some troubling deficits (for different reasons in both matches) and Löw proved to be inept as an improviser.

And neither the match against England nor the one against Argentina were perfect: twice we gave away control of the field and allowed an already staggering opponent back into the game. That Argentina couldn’t capitalize on our withdrawal had a lot to do with our exceptional defence rotation but one Lampard-like shot from afar into the net could have made things very difficult indeed.

Also, our passing was atrocious for a while after the half time break (I still don’t know why) and added another indicator that we are not yet stable enough to play to our full potential for 90 minutes or more.

Germany is still a work in progress, while Spain has already found its way.

And yet, I think not “a prayer” is a bit harsh; but from all the teams we could have met, this is the one I fear the most and with good reason.

Btw, anyone who is interested in the reasons for the changes in Germany’s football during the last years could be interested in Raphael Honigstein’s article: How Germany reinvented itself.

Even if we don’t make it against Spain, I am proud of the team and glad that we have gone back to a style that Germany played before it relied too much on athleticism, discipline and resilience. You need all of these characteristics to be a contender, but it’s not enough to win it all.

It was a joke. About Torres’ awful display this cup.
Germans. No sense of humor, I tell you.

I think Germany will struggle against Spain. I expect Spain to concentrate on keeping possession in the middle third and giving Germany no opportunities for counter attacks. They will be more than happy to sit deep, letting Xavi and Iniesta dictate the play and waiting for their own chances to come. With this in mind, I can see Fabregas coming into the middle in place of Torres, an extra body to stifle the German counter attack.

I would go for a war of attrition, dismissing any accusations of boring play as irrelevant as Spain wins 1-0 to reach the final.

:smack:

In my defence: “Not a prayer” was pretty close to my thoughts during the European Championship final 2008. You poked a wound cut by truth. :wink:

Great comments kids – first and foremost Wintertime’s clinical analysis of strategies, hat’s off to you Sir! And the same goes for too many others to list. I simply think that’s this thread has been an awesome source of all kinds of footy info/coverage/debate and the passion that makes football what it is: The World’s Game. So thank you all that contribute.

On my end, all I’ll say is that regardless of criticism for Del Bosque’s tinkering of a close to perfect team, what remains is likely the most competitive squad in the world – losing two out of 53 (I think that’s what we’re up to now) matches shows you that. So anyone wanting to get pass us needs both a very good day from their team and a poor one from us. Point being, players that have been criticized and doubted in our squad, justify their status and more when it counts. For instance there was quite a bit of debate about keeping Casillas as our first choice keeper, what with Valdes having a stellar year and Reina, well, being as steady as they come. Yet when push came to shove vs Paraguay, Iker proved why FIFA voted him as the world’s best goalie. Beyond the PK stop, his two fantastic saves towards the end are really what got us where we are. Thus, again, outside of Torre’s understandable poor performance coming off of surgery as he is, every Spanish player has made key contributions at key moments. Thus that’s why it’s so hard to beat La Furia.

Match analysis? That’s Wintertime’s specialty and and leave him to it – I think we can all learn from his posts in that sense. That said, I doubt the Germans will be overly happy to see Torres on the pitch; for if Del Bosque still goes that route I highly doubt the Mannschaft would be thrilled to see him. For any Spanish speakers here’s a short but decent debate about the pros and cons of him playing – specially vs Germany: ¿Debe Torres ser titular ante Alemania?

In closing, I agree with Wintertime that at the Euro '08 Germany (except for the first ten minutes or so) looked like a terribly overmatched team against the Spanish NT. But I dare not make any predictions about this match, for like him I am very proud of what my team has already done. Win or lose, both teams should be proud of what they’ve already done.

Plus I like playing Germany, they might (no, make that, are) tough as nails and very physical, but if nothing else I expect, as always, fair play from them.


Factoid: Nadal wins Wimbledon in '08, Spain wins Euro '08. Nadal wins Wimbledon in '10…see a bit of pattern here? JK of course. Or maybe not. Since I changed my Red strip to the Gold one from Euro '08 we haven’t lost a match. In fact the gold kit, though retired, never did. Guess what I’m wearing vs Germany? :wink:

Superstitious lot, those damn lunatic football fans.


ETA: As I’ve posted b4 my vote is a HUGE NO to Torres in the starting 11. Bur as I’ve also said before, who can argue vs results?

What results? They lost to Switzerland. They limped past Portugal and Paraguay. I think Torres’s play is significantly detracting from their performance. The way they’ve played so far, Germany look like it would spank Spain all over the field. I’m no expert, but Schweinsteiger looks to me as having played better than any of the famed Spanish midfielders. I noticed that almost all of the German team plays in the German Bundesliga. And I read that they played with the Jabulani ball in the past league season. This may be a bigger advantage than most think. If I watched this WC without knowing any of the teams or players, I think that Germany’s quickness, crisp passing, first touches and dribbling would convince me that they’re by far the best team here.

Spain may have had an impressive run-up to the WC. But they didn’t play Germany or Netherlands, who look like the two best teams in this tournament.

Netherlands? Really? One of the best two teams in the tournament?

Yah, he had me up to there. Then again, I don’t think there’s really any evidence to support RedFury’s team-love.

They did solidly beat Brazil, FIFA’s #1 ranked team in the world (for what that’s worth).

How about making the semifinals for the first time our history? Damn good result if you ask me. Obviously we (players and fans alike) want to go all the way.

In fact, if we go by “results” this is definitely Spain’s all-time best team already.

Yeah, and? Germany lost to the Mighty Serbians – who finished last in their group. Meanwhile we lost on a freak rebound, took over 20 shots on goal vs three for Switzerland and held possession close to 75% of the match. You play that match ten times again, odds are you’re going to win it 95%+ of the time.

53 wins/ties vs 2 defeats in the past three years is by far the best record of any NT in the world. Again, that’s “results” for you.

So you say. I thought we we’re clearly the better of the two teams and the score flatters Portugal, the 3rd ranked team in the world BTW – their keeper, Eduardo, kept it from being a rout. As for Paraguay, TBE, we knew they were going to put up a wall and it was going to be tough to break – don’t forget this is the same Paraguay that beat both, Brazil and Argentina during the SA qualies using that very style. – they are SA’s answer to the Catenaccio and are very good at it. They let in all of two goals in their five matches. And we got one of them when it counted.

Well, ** so do over 70% of Spanish fans; myself included**. So you’ve got that right.

How about you hear what Joachim Low has to say about the match-up? You’d think he knows what he speaks of, no?

Joachim Loew: ‘Spain have several Messis’

– underline mine.

So there you have it. Now, I am no way claiming that we’ll win for sure or anything close to that, but I am saying that you’ll see a very different Germany against Spain than you did against England or Argentina…we simply don’t play remotely like them. So who’ll win? Blood sweat and tears – the team with the biggest cojones will likely take it in the end. And just like Wintertime and others such as yourself are hoping it’s Germany, there are many others such as myself that think it will be Spain.

Spain has played (and beaten) every single* WC champ in the three year streak I spoke about, and that includes a dominant performance vs Germany at the '08 Euro Cup Final. And while I’ll agree that we have yet to play to our potential, who says we won’t on Wednesday?

*With the exclusion of Brazil, who we haven’t played since 1999.

[QUOTE=Knorf]
They did solidly beat Brazil, FIFA’s #1 ranked team in the world (for what that’s worth).
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if you can say that they “solidly” beat Brazil. The Dutch looked pretty poor in the first half, and they capitalized on some good luck in the second half, with Brazil’s composure collapsing after their defense somehow contrived to let in Sneijder’s cross (which turned into a very soft shot on goal!). I think it was more a case of Brazil losing than the Netherlands winning. That being said, it’s dangerous to underrate the Dutch, even though I still can’t regard them as favorites against either Spain or Germany in the final (assuming that they defeat Uruguay in the semis).

It’s hard to call the Spain/Germany semifinal. Germany have been mightily impressive, but the teams that they’ve trounced in the last two rounds have been rather suspect at the back, making them very vulnerable to Germany’s counter-attacks. In contrast, Spain had to face two very defensive-minded teams in Portugal and Paraguay, as reflected in the much lower goal-tally (on preview, I agree with everything RedFury just said). Anyway, it looks like it could be a fantastic semifinal with lots of attacking football, and I’m really looking forward to it.

Now that I’ve said that, though, it will probably be a 0-0 draw decided on penalties. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah I agree that the Netherlands didn’t look that great against Brazil and won because of defensive lapses more than anything else. Normally I would strongly support them against,say, Germany but this German team is playing such wonderful football it would be hard to begrudge them the title. It would be hard for Dutch fans to lose yet another final but they would probably admit that unlike their great 70’s teams, this team isn’t quite world champion material.

No offense to anyone, but it’s easy to poo-poo Netherlands being #2, but I didn’t see anyone else’s #2. And the betting odds have them #2 (with Spain close behind)

I suppose the results were satisfactory on a relative basis.

But Germany has shown dominance since the 1st round. Spain hasn’t shown much except Villa and Casillas.

Well, they were supposed to be the best based on all this, which is why I picked them to win the whole thing in the poll I started. But simply based on their play here, they’re not that good. Maybe the removal of El Nino and Muller not playing will even things out on Wednesday.

Managers things for many reasons. But in any case, I would have agreed with this before the WC.

I actually want Spain to win, but don’t like my chances.

I’m not saying they won’t play better, but Germany looks too good right now. The past is the past.

Well, yeah, but I doubt anyone would have predicted that Argentina would go down exactly the way England did - or that if the order of the matches was reversed, that England would go down exactly as Argentina did.

At this point, I think we have to say that the Germans are just really, really good.

I think they are, but also I think they haven’t faced the kind of quality defense that Spain has yet this WC.

I’m looking forward to the Germany Spain match more than whoever may be in the final. To me these are the two teams with the better game.

Stoppage time goals that can be saved using your hand? I don’t see that happening a lot.

Funny: Zork the Future

We’ll kick ass, Bam Boo Gut!

Y’all hide and watch!

Thanks

Quasi

Maybe you don’t see enough football?

Believe me, the amount of deliberate handballs as opposed to making a vain attempt to get to it legally is small enough to be insignificant. That’s exactly why there has been such outrage over this incident.

Your mistake is to extend how people act in American sports to the rest of the world. It doesn’t work that way. To “take one for the team” like this is not seen as in any way honourable.

Not a betting man – I’ve got enough vices already – so could (summarily) explain these to me? 2010 World Cup Winner Odds

What’s “relative” about it? I mean they couldn’t have possibly done better: Euro '08 Champions, undefeated in WC qualies and playing for a spot at the WC Finals.

Only if you “forget” their defeat at the hands of Serbia and their struggle vs Ghana. Beyond that many a football pundit will tell you that the backbone of a Championship team is their keeper and their target man. Not that either Germany or Spain are lacking in other positions. But still…

How are we “not that good” having made it to the semis? Again, I don’t understand that. Plenty a team (think Italy) has won the WC “looking” like shit. But they still have four trophies.

Mind games are always part of the build up to games, sure. But Lowe openly admits they’ve adopted parts our NT’s style. Surely he likes something about the way we play.

“In Spain the game is not just played or worked [at] but celebrated. It impresses me how easy it looks even though, of course, it isn’t easy at all. I like combination passing football and that is what I work towards.”

Are they better than us at our own game? TBA on Wednesday.

As I said I don’t bet, but once given your explanation of odds, I’m ready to put up US $1,000 on Spain taking this match.

Right. And the past is Germany’s 4-0 victory over Argentina. This is now.

Indeed they are. But I have more than enough reasons to believe we are as well.

Spot on. Thank you.

Not to disparage Holland, whom I quite like quite a bit, I’d have to agree.