If you don’t like soccer, how about not coming into a soccer thread, ok? The Pit would be a more appropriate venue.
I agree.
It’s slowly but surely ruining the game.
What took the biscuit for me was Tevez’s offside goal against Mexico, when the referee and linesman saw he was offside on the big screen, but couldn’t change their decision. The Mexican players were pissed (rather understandably). The Argentinian players were embarrassed. That moment summed up for me how much of a shambles the officiating is.
FIFA seem to have no interest in protecting the integrity of the game. Referees are losing any authority they once had, completely hamstrung by having to apply the letter of the law in every case rather than use their own judgement and a bit of common sense. Referees should be allowed to use their discretion a lot more, I think we would see much better refereeing. And, obviously, video replays should be used, and goalline tech.
Either that, or bring Collina out of retirement, and clone him. He’s only 50!
As for yellows and reds, then.
Consider Heitinga’s second offence that got him sent off, and then look at Puyol vs. Robben.
Now, I see one possible offense and a very clear one. Heitinga did lay his hand on Iniesta’s shoulder, but raised his hands immediately. He never pulled him down. Fair enough, he made the gesture, and the ref could have been convinced he DID pull. But if that is the case, then the only reason Puyol got off scott free, is because Robben refused to lay down - because he still had a good shot at the goal standing up.
So, in other words, this ref is obviously influenced by players taking a dive, or a fall - whichever it is. I’m not saying Dutch players didn’t dive, mind. I’m just saying that Webb apparently handed out a yellow, a second one at that, to a player who barely touched his oppenent, whilst later doing nothing when a defender almost pulled a striker’s pants off.
Letting the fall or dive (whichever it is) influence your call is pretty much the definition of bad refereeing.
It’s a bit unfair to say Spain was a “far better” team. Better, yes, but Holland were in the World Cup final too, and you don’t get there unless you’re really good. Remember, they beat Brazil, who were rolling prior to that match.
I’m going to both agree and disagree with Coldfire’s* take on the match.
I agree that it was almost inevitable, due to the strengths of each squad that van Marwijk’s Oranje with their two destructive (and boy do I mean destructive!) mids would charge with no mercy at the heart of our team – which is exactly the opposite; one of the most creative ones ever. So you had a clash of styles from the onset. However, I also agree that Webb mishandled the match almost from the start: had he simply followed the rules – and not this nonsense about “letting them play 'cause it’s The Final after all and they deserve…blah blah blah” – the Dutch would certainly have ended the first half with 10 men on the pitch. De Jong’s insane karate kick to Xabi’s chest was one of the most disgraceful fouls I’ve seen, Xabi was rather fortunate to not to have been taken out on a stretcher. Broken ribs are still a possibility as further tests await post today’s celebration. Now, had that happened, no one can say if Van Bommel would have dared continued with his reckless play, 'cuase if he had, that would have meant a nine man Oranje squad by the half.
Essentially, game over, I think most would agree. So…
That’s the part where I disagree with Coldfire and the rest of the Dutch players & fans. IMHO, it does sound like sour grapes to complain about the ref on missing a tipped ball (which happens in almost every match), when in all reality had the Rules Of The Game been applied as they should the match would never have got that far.
In conclusion the best team of this WC won. And that team is:
Spain 2010 FIFA World Cup Champions
Thank to all that participated and/or read along with this thread in what was a fascinating event from start to finish – impressive turn out that I think clearly shows the increasing interest in America for the World’s Game. And thanks as well to the people of South Africa for providing such a wonderful venue for one of the most successful – from every POV – World Cups ever.
*LTNS. Trust all is well by you. And yes, your time will come, just as ours finally did. Best always.
I leave you all with a single parting thought: can Fernando Torres grow his hair back in time to be any good at the European Championships?
Oh, and congratulations Espana!
I disagree. The players doesn’t have to fall down for it to be a free kick and the booking. A slight pull back, allowing someone to catch up with him, is enough. I actually think that the Puyol didn’t really do much at all. I remember debating this quite a lot at the pub last night. I just can’t see the offence there. Football is not a non-contact sport. Of your examples, one was a minor pull back that would definitely have affected a situation where the player was through on goal, the other was a minor scuffle that happens all the time without any sort of foul given.
Heitinga could easily have been given a straight red as arguably the player was through on goal (and this is arguable). If so then perhaps the referee decided that he had to go off but a second yellow was more dignified?
You also cannot look at two incidents in isolation as a referee certainly does not. Previous fouls are taken into consideration - you can be booked for persistent fouling.
I agree that the Netherlands are a better side than many give them credit for, which is bizarre seeing as they just came second in the World Cup, but I can’t agree that Brazil were rolling. 2-1 against North Korea? The 0-0 against Portugal being a very good candidate for the worst game of the competition?
This was a poor Brazil team, much like in 2006 where they also went out in the Quarter Finals. I think there is a good argument for Brazil’s time having passed. The world has caught up with them and quite possibly left them behind.
Are you seriously telling me they won’t be the favorites at home in 2014? I hate them, but I have to admit they’re good.
They’ve won two of the last five Cups, and lost in the final in one of the others. It will be a while before we can say their time has passed.
Although Iniesta went down easily, he was definitely fouled, and a foul in that spot at least a yellow every time. Spot on from the referee imo.
As for Robben/Puyol, he played advantage. If he allows Robben to try go around Casillas, he can’t then bring it back for a free kick when Robben fluffs it. Robben knew he was still outside the box, otherwise I’m pretty sure he would have gone down.
So no free kick, but yeah, I guess the referee probably should have gone back and sent him off afterwards. But this is one incident of clumsiness, compared to at least seven or eight deliberate, malicious fouls from the Dutch.
Having said that, remember Xavi got booked for kicking the ball away near the end. Robben did the same, and he was already booked. So technically Robben should have been off as well (although I fully respect the ref’s decision to just warn him instead).
Don’t lump me in with that group so easily: I’m using the unobserved corner as an example of Webb’s poor grasp on the game, not as “What if”-scenario opposed to Iniesta’s winning goal. So no sour grapes in that sense.
As for the progression of the match under a different ref who would have given cards where needed, well, see my first post this morning. Webb dealt yellows where they weren’t warranted (Heitinga’s second), failed to card where he should have (Puyol vs. Robben), and most importantly, was scared to pull the direct red on De Jong. Had De Jong been sent off when he should have, it would have vastly changed the Dutch perspective on the game, and certainly on any further fouls. As it was, Webb’s wishy-washy interpretation of the rules made for a match in which the players just didn’t respect the ref. It’s easy to attribute that to Hollands admittedly violent gameplay, but it could also be argued that a better ref would have kept the violence in check. Preferably whilst dealing out the right colour card where and when applicable.
This all doesn’t change one bit about the outcome, and España won it fair and square. I’m genuinely happy for them, I just wish it wasn’t Holland they had to beat to do it. 
Cheers mate, and yes, all’s well.
Just to be sure: I agree with that statement wholeheartedly. I’m just saying Webb apparently didn’t make all his decisions that way.
Personally, I think Webb did a fine job. It wasn’t a particularly easy game to ref, and yes he missed the corner kick. But honestly, he didn’t really make any mistakes that in my opnion impacted the game tremendously. Well, except for not giving De Jong a red card, which in any other situation would have been a straight red. But I will be honest, giving a red out in a World Cup Final in the first half, no less, would have detracted from the game in my opinion, so selfishly I am gald he didn’t give one.
Really? Remember, for the Portugal game nil-nil suited Brazil perfectly. And they beat North Korea easily enough in the end, the Koreans having played their hearts out. They got the result they needed in both these games. They hammered the Ivory Coast, and hammered Chile, both very decent sides. Scored some fantastic goals while they were at it.
Up until the Holland match, I thought Brazil were the best team in the competition. They were well on top against the Dutch for 55 mins, then Melo scored his own goal, and Brazil fell apart. The Dutch were commiting niggly little fouls all over the pitch, and the Brazilians got no protection from the referee - in the end they just lost their discipline completely. Ok, they should have been far, far tougher mentally, but to suggest that they are not a good team, or that the world has left them behind, is just madness. Had they beaten Holland, I imagine they would have beaten Uruguay easily enough, and then given us a much better final. One bad performance is not enough to write them off.
Well at least the Dutch now have the position of being the best team to have never won the world cup.
And one more thing. The Dutch have got to stop helping other teams play football. They got beaten by a Russian team with a Dutch coach in the 2008 European Cup, and television commentary I’ve heard several times suggests that Spain owes much to Holland by adopting the Dutch style called Total Football, introduced by coaches Rinus Michels, FIFA Coach of the Century, and Johan Cruyff into the Spanish league.
You’re not seriously claiming that people should try to cross the ball, from the right side of the field, with their left foot?
RNATB, really? You can’t shoot a ball straight for 7 yards? There’s plenty of space to hit it straight in. Shit, you see near post shots for that angle all the time. However, what you don’t see is a guy aim his hips back across the goal to do it. He opened his hips up while he was kicking. His hips were pointed back across the goal. Did either of you guys play, or are you just fans?
That last sentence sounds (and maybe is) needlessly snotty. I am actually confused about why the two of you don’t think his body language screamed “CROSS!!!”
Because the body language is clearly screaming “SHOT!” (pretend I put that in 96-point font).
Apart from anything else, he’s looking between the posts the whole time.
This is plainly untrue for everybody that’s seen the goal.
He looks back across the goal, he swivels his hips, the keeper doesn’t step up until he’s totally committed to the strike. The ball is just too far/fast for what he wanted to do and he got lucky.
It happens every game that wingers try for crosses, they can’t get around the ball, and they shank it either too near the goal, or out of bounds. The only reason people think this is a shot is because the guy who scored it is wearing yellow.