Not at all. I had no idea who he was until this WC, and I’m definitely not a Brazil homer. When Luis Fabiano scored his “great” goal in the same game, I was shouting obscenities at the officials for failing to notice the two obvious handballs involved.
This footage (though grainy) makes it clearer. Even if (as you claim) he hits it towards the goal accidentally, you have to admit he belts it. There was no way anyone was going to get on the end of a cross moving that quickly.
Right. The way he strikes the ball plus the power he hits it makes it pretty clear he was shooting. No one hits a cross that hard with that spin from that spot. Shot all the way. I was kind of baffled that the commentators (Harkes & Martin Tyler) kept questioning it.
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. All but one of the examples you cite of Webb screwing up “the progression of the match” are from late in the game. Heitinga’s second card? (which I agree was a bit harsh) 110th minute! Puyol’s should-have foul? 83rd minute!
The only thing that stopped the rough Dutch fouls was when 50% of the team were working on yellows. (Shockingly, this is not hyperbole; 5 Dutch players were booked by the 56th minute.) What else is Webb supposed to do? Send off two or three Dutch players and forever mar the final?
Ironically, the thing you most criticize Webb for is NOT sending off a Dutch player. In the 29th minute of a World Cup Final. This is too bizarre for words. We all know that if that had happened, all the Dutch fans (and a lot of others spectators too) would have said that the referee was over-officious and ruined the final. Somehow he is getting criticized for being both too strict and overly indulgent at the exact same time.
A lot of people are remembering Pierluigi affectionately but I remember him having a couple shocking matches too. Everyone makes mistakes, even wise old bald Italian men.
You had no idea who Maicon is? That’s very surprising based on your knowledge of soccer.
I don’t really follow South American football outside the World Cup, and I haven’t paid much attention to the game at all since the last UEFA Championship. So, I missed Inter’s Champions’ League win and their last three Serie A titles.
Agree with this 100%. The Dutch came out with an intensely cynical strategy and Webb did a reasonable job in the circumstances. His yellows against the Dutch in the first half did work and the final was quite better afterwards. You had around 75 minutes of decent football where both teams created opportunities and the better team eventually scored. If Webb had used the red early, the game would have been effectively over and in all likelihood the Spanish would have won easily anyway.
I agree with much that coldfire has said, also I was getting sick with the spanish asking for yellows everytime they were touched (this in itself a yellow card offense and if handled as such would have Iniesta and Xavi out with two yellows by the 10th minute). this off course would never happen and it would be ridiculous if it had.
While watching the game I really didn’t think it was that hard - especially the first half - and Webb made a meal out of it for both sides (those two spanish yellows were just as ridiculous as the ones for Bommel and Heitinga). I’m conflicted about De Jong, most pictures don’t show how the ball was hanging in mid air between Alonso and him and I am not sure he didn’t try to get to the ball. In any case, the result should have had him sent of, I’m just not sure it was intentional but when you raise you foot like that you better be sure no one is near you.
About the goal, these things happen, but conceding a goal in the 118th minute in the World Cup fnal after just being denied the ball (corner) and a hint of offside (which I was certain of at the time, but not so much now) will get people emotional, it did with me anyway. In the end I do think Spain were a bit better, but not that much - we saw hardly any of the passing game.
All in all congrats to Red Fury and Spain, I’ll just go end be ill for a week or two.
I read an interesting article analyzing that. Spain has traditionally been very unsuccessful with teams of big, energetic manly men, playing fairly straightforward football only to choke when facing the Italians, who would disrupt their flow every time using tactical fowls.
That’s what the Dutch tried in the final, goad them into making mistakes or even retaliating, and instead of falling for that, they exaggerated the fouls they had received and went to pressure the referee into being more strict.
In a way, it was an Italy-Netherlands final, with the Spaniards playing teh Dutch.
I don’t see a pull back. I see a hand on a shoulder and a player diving because he knew he had little chance to get to the ball. Theres no way it was a foul. It was a clear and obvious dive.
I can’t believe you are arguing that Heitinga fouled but Puyol didn’t. Puyol wrapped his arm around Robben’s waist, and then swept his legs like he was a power ranger. It was as clear as a foul could be, and was an obvious yellow. Which, IIRC, would have been his second.
Does anyone have a youtube of Heitinga’s first foul? I recall the Spanish player rolling around for a while until the ref noticed and brought the card out.
I only learned about him while watching the Champions League. But they kept referring to him as “the best right back in the world” or something.
I just went back on my TiVo and rewatched it. The replay shows that Webb has turned his back just as Heitinga kicks Villa’s legs (a full beat after he passes the ball) like he was taking a free kick. You’re correct in that Webb doesn’t stop play until Villa is flailing around and the Spanish kick the ball out. I don’t know whether he was going off the word of his linesman, but you can’t argue that the first yellow wasn’t deserved.
A dive doesn’t stop it being a foul. You don’t have to pull a man down for it to be a foul.
I honestly don’t think so. I can’t find a decent YouTube video of it, but it appeared to me then and does from what I can see now that the original contact was much, much more shoulder to shoulder than Heitinga (who was clearly well behind the man) and as for sweeping his legs - are you really suggesting he did that on purpose? The guy was running as fast as he could and went arse over tit.
Let’s also not forget that Robben should have been sent off two minutes before the goal for kicking the ball away (aka time wasting) when he was already on a yellow.
Hi Erdosain. 
Granted the examples I underscored are from later in the game, but there was a 10 minute stretch in the first half in which the ref handed out 6 cards IIRC (of which 4 or 5 to Holland). At least half of them were dubious, and quickly thereafter Nigel de Jong didn’t get the red he was begging for with that horrendous foul.
All I’m saying is that the ref lost a lot of credibility in that time span, up to and including the De Jong foul. And in my opinion, he never regained composure, nor full grip on the match again. To be fair, with the emotions settling down a bit, I’ll grant Webb that it was a DAMN tough game to ref. And his inconsitency affected the Spanish negatively as well, at times.
Well, it’s all academic now, but like I said: I think if De Jong had gotten his well-deserved send-off, it would have drastically changed the game. Perhaps not in outcome (again, I’m not claiming the Dutch were robbed of the cup), but certainly in everything else.
Nothing ironic in calling a ref inconsistent - which is what I’m critisising Webb for. And which he demonstrably was. Had De Jong been sent off, I’m sure some Dutch would have bitched and moaned about it. They would have been wrong.
As I type this, over half a million people are lining the canals in Amsterdam where the Dutch team are getting a warm welcome per canal cruise.
I’m not gonna salute a bunch of losers, of course. 
What I said is he hit across the ball with his right. That curls it clockwise, so it curls to the right. When crossing fromthe byline you wrap your foot around the ball, hitting with your instep and curling it anti-clockwise, so that it curls to the left, rather than curling out of play, it swerves away from the keeper and towards the strikers.
I’d imagine I’ve played at a much higher level than you. I coach kids as well.
Fair enough. However, I am still trying to wrap my head around your argument that the ref did you a disservice by not forcing you to play with ten men for an hour against the best team in football. 
That’s the kind of injustice I could use more of!
No, no they were not.
Well, I’m saying that in my best impression of an unbiased spectator. How’s that working?
Calling a spade a spade, that was a PURPLE card for Nigel de Jong. And everybody knows it. Those who deny it are lying, including mr De Jong himself. So had he gotten the red, the only person Holland could have been mad at would have been Nigel himself, for such a vile and unnecessary foul. If you’re gonna split someone in half, at least make it count for something.
amanset: yes they were SO THERE.
Frankly he deserved at least a yellow for being called Nigel.
I’ll give you that one. The English (or other foreign) first name phenomenon was quite popular in The Netherlands in the late 1970’s and 1980’s, predominantly in the (for lack of a better word) lower socio-economic rungs.
Hence our whole line-up of Nigel, Wesley, Joey (well Giovanni, technically), Gregory, John, Robin…
[Al Murray the Pub Landlord] Beautiful British names! [/AMtPL] 
People call Giovanni Gio, following his time in Barcelona; never have I heard anyone refer to him as Joey.