Yes, the Baseball HOF continually punts on Ray Guy. 
I’ve got to hold my nose and vote for Bonds & Clemens. I think their pre-ped performance level justifies inclusion in the HOF.
Morris gets in as the best AL starter of the 80s and as the star of two World Series champs.
So we should expect your support for David Eckstein’s inclusion in 2016?
My fake-ballot:
Bagwell
Raines
Trammell
Martinez
Walker
Piazza
Schilling
Biggio
I’m willing to vote for Bonds and Clemens - we’re voting them into a museum, not a church - but I don’t think I’d do so this year, especially with such a large ballot already.
The only other guys on the list I think I could be talked into are Lofton (very close to the border line for me, though certainly better than a number of OF who are already in) and McGwire. Morris and Smith will both get significant support, but they’re both complete non-starters for me.
Wait, what? What about Roger Clemens? Or Bret Saberhagen? Morris was arguably not even as good as Dave Stieb in the 80s.
According to BB-Ref, Jack Morris had 27.6 WAR from 1980 to 1989 (10 seasons).
Bret Saberhagen had 30.4 WAR from 1984 to 1989 (6 seasons).
Roger Clemens had 34.1 WAR from 1984 to 1989 (6 seasons).
Dwight Gooden had 29.3 WAR from 1984 to 1989 (6 seasons).
Orel Hershiser had 31.4 WAR from 1983 to 1989 (7 seasons).
Bert Blyleven had 35.8 WAR from 1980 to 1989 (10 seasons).
In summary, Jack Morris wasn’t close to the best pitcher of the 1980s. He merely had the most wins, which is a laughable way of valuing pitchers.
Holy moly, Dave Stieb 45.6 WAR from 1980 to 1989.
My ballot:
Bagwell
Raines
Trammell
E. Martinez
Piazza
Biggio
Bagwell and Piazza have both been tarred with the PED brush in spite of any actual evidence (neither is mentioned in the Mitchell Report). Bagwell was outstanding for a lot of years with the Astros; Piazza was unquestionably the best hitting catcher of all time and not nearly as bad defensively as his reputation would suggest.
Tim Raines was the second best leadoff hitter of his generation behind Rickey Henderson and arguably one of the top ten leadoff hitters ever. He’s more than deserving of the Hall.
Alan Trammell, like Raines, played in the shadow of a slightly better guy at his position: Cal Ripken. But I’d say that Trammell was the second best shortstop in the AL for most of his career and being second best to Ripken is still pretty good. He should be in.
Craig Biggio was a passable catcher, an outstanding second baseman and a very good outfielder in his career, as well as being a damn fine hitter and baserunner. He’s a no brainer to me.
We’ve had the DH role in the AL now for 40 years but they still don’t get any credit. That’s stupid. Either start showing the position some respect or eliminate it and make pitchers start hitting again. In the meantime, I’m voting for my main man, 'Gar, who was an excellent hitter and a decent third baseman early in his career.
I leave Walker off my list by a hair. The Coors-inflated numbers in his prime still nother me, but my position may soften over time. Likewise, although I liked Kenny Lofton, I just see him as being in the Hall of Very, Very Good.
Stieb is pretty good. For those bringing in Hershiser and Gooden, remember that the original comment from zamboniracer limited it to AL starters.
A comparison between some of the top AL-only pitchers in the 80s follows. Blyleven and Saberhagen’s names have been truncated to fit. :
W L W-L% ERA GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB ERA+ WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB
Morris 162 119 0.571 3.70 332 133 20 2442.5 2212 1085 995 264 858 110 1.26 8.20 0.95 3.17 5.93 1.91
Stieb 140 109 0.559 3.37 331 92 27 2326.8 2019 954 859 183 825 127 1.23 7.82 0.70 3.24 5.33 1.66
Clemens 95 45 0.659 3.19 174 58 21 1283.5 1088 476 437 95 371 137 1.16 7.78 0.67 2.65 8.33 3.36
Blyln. 121 99 0.539 3.66 273 104 23 1993.9 1884 886 801 206 533 117 1.22 8.44 0.85 2.58 6.54 2.68
Saber. 92 61 0.586 3.30 178 52 12 1327.6 1240 522 477 105 258 130 1.13 8.45 0.70 1.78 5.82 3.42
Hough 127 111 0.512 3.87 281 93 11 2088.4 1805 978 844 214 846 106 1.35 8.02 0.85 4.10 6.08 1.55
What I get from it is that, IMHO, Stieb was the best AL pitcher in the 80s as a whole, but Morris is closer than I would’ve guessed from reading sabr-heads bitch about his acclaim. As far as the most talented AL pitcher in the 80s, I think it’s Clemens, but, like Morris, Saberhagen is a lot closer than I would’ve guessed. Roger’s K-rate is just filthy though. Saberhagen’s walk rate really stands out too.
Obligatory fangraphs WAR rundown: It’s sorted by their summed up WARs in the years 1980-1989. This means, e.g., that Blyleven’s 1980 Pirates season of 4.2 WAR gets added in. (Does anyone know, in a nutshell, why Fangraph’s and Baseball Reference’s calculations of WAR differ so much?)
Name WAR WAR(80's)
Blyl. 110 42.2
Stieb 49.5 41.5
Clemens 145.5 39.8
Morris 56.9 36.1
Saber. 61.5 33.4
Guidry 50.6 28.8
Hough 28.7 26.5
Higuera 29.6 25.6
Fangraphs really likes Blyleven for some reason. As a kid growing up in the 80s, I didn’t think he was as dominant as Clemens or Saberhagen. YMMV. Stieb was rarely on T.V. in the Bay Area, except when he was playing the A’s. (Who did better than I remembered, as Stieb went 9-11, with 2 NDs against them in the 80s) It’s just silly how much value Clemens racked up in 6 seasons.
Fangraphs and BBRef’s WAR differ because BBRef calculates it based on what happened whereas Fangraphs determines what you would expect that player’s WAR to be based on peripherals under their control.
The best to express this is that a pitcher who has an abnormally (and unsustainably) high strand rate, say 90%, would be given a lot more credit by BBRef’s measure than by Fangraph’s. I personally agree with the Fangraphs version, but opinions vary.
IMHO, Rivera’s a Hall of Famer, Hoffman is not. Rivera’s level of dominance is far, far above anyone else. I don’t think Hoffman’s close to Rivera.
I’m anti-“juicer”, very pro overlooked guys. I picked the obvious "clean’ guys. Ran out of spots for a few guys.
No, I would not vote for John Franco. Smith was the career saves leader for a significant amount of years until Trevor Hoffman surpassed him. You don’t think saves are a valuable stat. I think it’s one good way to measure closers. **RickJay **said he wouldn’t vote for Schilling because he hadn’t racked up enough wins. I would argue that if you value wins for starting pitchers, why not value saves for closers?
Really? Both have played 18 seasons, Rivera has a whopping 7 more saves in that time and 3 fewer blown saves than Hoffman, for less than half a per cent difference in their respective save percentages. That doesn’t meet my standard for “level of dominance far, far above anyone else.” YMMV.
I fully agree with this - which is why I don’t value wins for starters either. 
I think he meant that he thinks the voters won’t vote for Schilling because of wins, not that he wouldn’t. They’re both terrible statistics anyway.
Consider the following:
Rivera Hoffman
IP 1219 1089
ERA 2.21 2.87
WHIP 0.998 1.058
ERA+ 206 141
Then add in the following post-season numbers:
Rivera Hoffman
IP 141 13
ERA 0.70 3.46
WHIP 0.759 1.231
SV 42 4
I only put the saves in there for the post-season to point out that if you include them Rivera actually has 45 more saves than Hoffman.
I have no doubt that Hoffman will make the HoF. The standard has been set with Sutter et al, and 600 saves is a big gaudy number that nobody else but Mo and him has. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it.
I just provided vote number 50. As of now we have successfully elected no one to the hall. I wouldn’t be shocked if this happens with the actual hall, which will cause even more overcrowding next time around.
BobLibDem:
Why do you oppose thumbs?
MMV.