When Palmeiro got his 500th HR, Tim Kurkjian mentioned he was the only 500 homer guy to ever lead the league in singles. At the time, I didn’t think anything of it. Suspicious in retrospect. With regard to Puckett, the incident in the restaurant bathroom ruined his “nice guy” image. I also agree Donnie Baseball
is a HOF.
I wouldn’t dispute that. But the margin of difference should have meant something like that Kirby might not have got in before 5-10 ballots, while Mattingly topped out above 50% without ever getting in. It wasn’t the difference between a first-ballot HOFer and someone who would never come close. The difference as has been said was due mostly to intangibles and to Mattingly’s career corresponding exactly to the Yankee’s longest championship drought.
Agreed, and timing was everything.
If Puckett hadn’t become eligible until 2 years later, his personal problems would have then come to light. If Mattingly’s back had held on just a little longer, allowing him to play just another year (even as a part time player) he would have gotten his ring and been a (small) part of what became the last Yankee dynasty.
Dodgers beat writer Ken Gurnick voted for Jack Morris and nobody else. Freaking people. The results are out tomorrow - happy Hall of Fame day everybody!
What an idiot and he should have his vote taken away.
I strongly disagree with his ballot, but at least there’s some consistency.
The one problem I have with voting players from the PED era, is how to “weight” their performances. For instance, you can reason that Palmeiro made his 3000 hit/500 Hr milestones because PEDs extended his career. Or that Bonds, even after discounting his stats for PEDs still had a HOF career. But it’s so subjective, because you don’t know when they started using them, OR, what players they were competing against were also juicing.
One way to avoid all that is to just not vote for anyone from that era and have some Veteran’s committee deal with it down the road. Which, will just might happen if Bonds/Clemens and others get excluded.
Jack Morris played until 1994, so no, there isn’t.
I think it’s a reasonable assumption, if not always correct, that a player that pitched from 1977 - 1994 was far less likely to use steroids than one who started a decade later. And yes, I know of anecdotes of players using 'roids back in the '60s, but I think the writer is 99% correct in his assumption.
“As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won’t vote for any of them.”
It’s entirely possible that Jack Morris used P.E.D’s in the hope of extending his career.
After all, he played with Shawn Green in Toronto and Jason Grimsley, Albert Belle and Manny Ramirez in Cleveland.
It’s always possible, but unlikely. I assume that this writer covered baseball back then and formed his own opinion. I don’t agree with his logic, or his assumptions, but I accept that he’s being consistent within his own perception of things.
What drives me crazy are things like when George King, NY BBWAA member left Pedro Martinez off his 1999 MVP ballot, altogether offering the logic that pitchers have the Cy and should not be MVP candidates. (don’t agree with that, but it’s his opinion.) But then the next year King votes for Yankee pitcher as MVP/
Now, I think Gurnick may have voted for Bagwell last year, in which case he should explain when and how he arrived at the new stance. A few voters have gotten so sick of the PED debate, they no longer vote. That probably would have been the preferred action for Gurnick, but I guess he really likes Morris.
What’s consistent about saying ‘I will not vote for anyone who played during the Steroid Era’ and then voting for someone who played until 1994?
Well, Gurnick’s ballot screwed Maddux out of 100%, but there’s bound to be at least a few other anonymous assholes who want to be pricks. Looks like Piazza and Bagwell are losing steam as well. Raines is holding steady.
99.4 - Maddux
96.1 - Glavine
92.3 - F. Thomas
78.7 - Biggio
———————————
69.0 - Piazza
61.3 - Bagwell
60.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
56.1 - Raines
41.3 - Bonds
40.6 - Clemens
38.1 - Schilling
29.7 - Mussina
24.5 - E. Martinez
24.5 - L. Smith
23.9 - Trammell
14.8 - Kent
14.2 - McGriff
9.7 - L. Walker
9.7 - McGwire
7.7 - S. Sosa
5.8 - R. Palmeiro
5.8 - Mattingly
I just noticed I voted for Piazza, because I forgot he admitted to andro use. If he’s still on the ballot next year, he’s another “no way” for me.
Can I ask why, since it wasn’t against the rules at the time? I don’t think I ever heard about it until now and I don’t know what to make of it because we can’t be sure it’s the whole truth. Whenever we talked about A-Rod’s admitted PED use I tried to make a point of saying that his admission was self-serving and incomplete, and I got that one right at least.
Because the writer in question is probably using the MLB homer totals to define the Steroid Era. It’s generally acknowledged that after the strike shortened season MLB turned a blind eye to PED use and used the long ball proliferation to bring bacck the game’s popularity.
True, the Bash Brothers were using them in the late 80s, but it’s pretty common perception, that the Steroid Era was after the strike and through the time testing began in 2004/2005.
Do you remember who led the majors in home runs in 1994?
Piazza admitted to using over-the-counter andro before 2005. Since a) andro(otc) was legally obtainable back then, and b) it wasn’t a banned substance before 2004/05, of what was Piazza guilty?
McGwire used Andro, but he also shot up with stuff that was illegally obtained, I believe. Piazza may have been lying about what he was using and how it was administered, but that’s another issue. This whole PEDS issue reminds me of the McCarthy Era of the early 1950’s – there were real Commie spies stealing secrets, but many more folks were unfairly tainted and lost careers because they went to Communist meetings or supported the Spanish Loyalists against the Fascists in the 1930s.
Well, if it was Jack Morris than I guess the writer’s case is completely blown out of the water.
It was Matt Williams, who was named in the Mitchell Report for buying steroids and HGH. If they had played out the season he might’ve broken Maris’ record. Albert Belle and Jose Canseco were also pretty high on the list.