RickJay:
Bill Mazeroski.
I think that if there’s a body of work that predates their known PEDs era, I’m okay with it. I’d say that they probably squeak by. I mean, Gaylord Perry was caught with, what, a nail file or sand paper? He cheated, yet he’s in the HOF.
Of course he will not be unanimous but he’ll be elected on the first ballot for sure.
I can’t vote for Bonds or Clemens, I just can’t. I voted for Vlady, Kent, Edgar, Moose, Schilling, Wagner, Chipper, and Thome. I missed Hoffman’s name on the ballot. If you could you give him my vote that’d be cool. Rick Jay sold me on Walker. Since I still have a vote left, if you could give Larry another vote, that’d be cool too.
i’m not sure I even get the point of a Hall of Fame without Bonds.
Guerrero - should’ve gone in last year.
Hoffman - I guess. I hate voting for closers.
Jones - obviously
Thome - i guess…
Walker - three all-time years at his peak.
Rolen - I don’t think he will get in and maybe he isn’t, but he was great positionally and was solid offensively at a tough position.
Martinez - I don’t like the DH but he was an all timer at it.
I’m surprised by the numbers willing to put aside the cheating by him & Clemens who probably would have made the Hall w/o the drugs and some of the others that only have HOF numbers due to the drugs.
Speaking of Clemens, while I despise the guy, his **nickname **was pretty good too. “Rocket” works.
If I’m reading this right, currently the SDMB only thinks Chipper is a Hall of Famer with Thome being just below the 75% cutoff.
BTW: For those not voting for Chipper, why? He seems like such a easy choice.
Maz was voted in by the Veterans’ Committee, and was obviously a controversial choice.
Phil Rizzuto is another such case who definitely benefited greatly by being on championship Yankees teams. Had he put up identical numbers for the St. Louis Browns I’m sure his legacy would be quite different.
In baseball, playoff performances can put a guy over the top, but I don’t think anyone would be held back due to poor postseason stats.
Maybe they’re confusing him with Andruw? 
In looking at the list, and this thread, one could fill a ballot with the All-Asshole Vote:
- Bonds
- Schilling
- Clemens
- Kent
- Zambrano
- Sheffield
Well Scooter had a lot of help getting in anyway, this was via the old veterans commitee that had Yankees & friends like Pee-Wee Reese on it. I recall Yogi Berra campaigned for him a bit too. (IIRC) Also part of his being put in the Hall was also lifetime achievement as he was the constant voice in the Yankees broadcast booth from 1957 past the time he got elected in 1994. The almost 60 years in baseball helped him out almost as much as being a Yankee.
BTW: A few weird things with Scooter, while he is of course in the Baseball Hall of Fame, he is also mentioned in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for his work on Paradise by the Dashboard Lights. His Gold Record, sold for around $8000 after his death. I had a pre-bid on it for $800. That is what the auction house thought it would go for, I knew it was undervalued and figured I had to go for it.
When he was on an Army baseball team in WWII, Pee-Wee was also on the team. They moved Pee-Wee to 2nd not Phil.
Ty Cobb said of Scooter back in the early 50s that he was the only modern player that knew how to really bunt.
While those things might be true, it’s worth noting the small matter that Pee Wee Reese was a better baseball player. He had a longer career (despite also missing three years to the war) and was a better hitter. He was an outstanding defensive player. He was a hell of a bunter, too. Ty Cobb was a great player and all, but let’s bear in mind that at about the same time he said the MLB player most similar to him was… Roy Campanella, a big, slow right handed hitting catcher. Cobb was prone to saying some weird shit.
Rizzuto was not the worst HOF choice ever; if you credit him for his three years in the war, which I think is fair, you’d have a great defensive shortstop with 2,000 hits, an MVP Award, and seven World Series rings. That’s a resumé.
By the way, guys, just remember last year the SDMB failed to elect anyone, even Ivan Rodriguez. Nobody, IIRC, explained why they would not vote for a guy who quite obviously is one of the five or six best catchers who ever lived, but about 30% of them refused to. Damned if I know why. So we probably won’t elect anyone, for reasons I really don’t understand. Why anyone would not vote for Chipper Jones I cannot for the life of me understand, but if you have forgotten to, please let me know how you want your vote changed, thanks.
Maybe nobody said it, but Pudge had a roid-looking bod.
Those who still insist that PED users don’t belong surely know by now how open they are to charges of hypocrisy. But their numbers do seem to be dwindling, which is good.
Yeah, I can understand how someone who’s taking the hardest line possible against PED users would not have voted for Pudge. I don’t remember if there was much evidence, but I’m pretty sure his name was out there in some way. Hell, Mike Piazza was suspected because he had back acne or some such nonsense.
I used to say no way to PED users but now, screw it. We’ll never know for sure who all used and who definitely didn’t. It will be real interesting what the writers do with David Ortiz down the road.
It will probably not surprise you that Joe Morgan has decided to take a broadside against the suspected PED users:
It will probably also not surprise you, since I think it fair to assume you have heard Mr. Morgan’s work on-air, that his position is - if one is very, very generous - very stupid, and if one chooses to be less generous, deliberately dishonest.
Joe Morgan is entitled to his opinion, but his open letter is, to my mind, unethical and extremely bullshitty; I don’t want to derail this thread, but there are so many things wrong with this I can’t even. I’d START with the facts that Morgan sent the letter from his position as a board member of the Hall of Fame, this putting an official-looking slant on his personal opinion, and he purports to speak on behalf of many (curiously unnamed) “Hall of Famers,” which makes me suspect he’s speaking only for himself.
Pudge was on that notorious Texas Rangers team with Canseco, Palmeiro et al. That isn’t enough evidence, obviously, but it’s part of the reason I’ve given up trying to figure it out. I think Piazza and Bagwell were users too. Hell, I’m convinced there are others already in the Hall. Steroids have been a big thing with gym freaks going back to the 80s and beyond. Nolan Ryan? Rickey Henderson? Who freaking knows?
Manny, Barry and Roger are among the greatest players of all time. They would probably have had Hall of Fame careers without drugs. Same with A-Rod. It all sucks, but the writers need to get over it and let them in. Borderline guys like Sosa and McGwire can go pound sand. Unfortunate, but there it is.
I guess for it to sway my opinion, I want a guy to be significantly better in the playoffs than in the regular season - Schilling yes, Rivera yes, Carlos Beltran yes, MadBum (eventually) yes, but Andy Pettitte, who pitched a whole lot in the playoffs but was basically as good as in the regular season (albeit against better opposition), ehh just a bit maybe.
I voted for Thome and I am gratified to see many others did as well. Seems we have some pretty astute baseball fans here on the SDF. He put up monster numbers for a long long time, but was egregiously under-appreciated and unsung since he played in a small TV market area, and with a team that were perpetual also-rans. (Cleveland.)
Good job, guys!
Absitively. It’s the Hall of Fame. The best players play their best when it matters the most - that’s why they have fame. The fans who instead want a Hall of Regular Season Stats are invited to start one.
Willie Mays wasn’t one of the best players and isn’t famous?