Well, while we’re at it, I am confused about Edgar Martinez being ahead of Mike Mussina. Mussina is rather clearly higher among a list of all time great pitchers than Martinez is among hitters.
Anyway, Schilling is absolutely on the outs with the voters, here and in the BBWAA, because he’s a massively unlikable Trumpist dickhead and no one wants to shake his hand in Cooperstown. Is that unfair? I’m not sure; it does seem irrelevant to his career as a player, which by any reasonable analysis is more impressive than Roy Halladay, and Halladay will be shooed in with ease, and not just because he died.
Really? I mean, I guess if you just look at his career WAR it doesn’t scream HOF. Somehow WAR was unkind to Sammy. Maybe it was all the strikeouts and the fact that league averages were way up during his run. But even considering that, he was one of the best; seven top 10 MVP finishes. WAR be damned, I think Sammy has a better case than Larry Walker, for example.
Hmmmm. I’m not sure I agree with this. Schilling had a longer career than Halladay, of course, and thus his counting statistics are generally better (including WAR, which is ultimately a counting stat). Yeah, Schilling struck out more guys than Halladay by a pretty sizable margin (Halladay walked fewer and gave up fewer home runs, albeit by much smaller margins).
But Schilling pitched the bulk of his career and had his best seasons in the National League; Halladay was an AL pitcher for three quarters of his career, facing designated hitters where Schilling faced opposing pitchers. For their careers, they both had very impressive ERA+, but Halladay’s was better: 131 to 127. And while I’m not fond of this argument, Halladay won two Cy Young awards and Schilling never won any, which does carry weight with some voters.
Both were great pitchers, but I don’t see where Schilling’s HOF resume is “by any reasonable analysis” more impressive than Roy Halladay’s.
ETA: But this is exactly what I was trying to say above - I just can’t get all that invested emotionally in discussing Schilling versus Halladay, because Roger Clemens was much better than either of them for much longer, and he’s not in the Hall, so what does it matter?
FWIW, I realized that Schilling was an unlikable dickhead some years before he became a Trumpist.
I suppose I’m never sure what to do about players who are tremendously talented, but really are asshats, as well. (It’s the same reason why I never liked Terrell Owens or Randy Moss, too.)
Let’s not pretend that Schilling supporting Trump is the reason he’s not in the Hall. He was receiving the same amount of support as Mussina right up to the moment he endorsed the lynching of journalists. Maybe not the smartest move when you’re being judged by a bunch of writers.
Better than Walker? How? Walker was clearly the better defender, and probably a better base runner too. All Sosa has is the homers.
Sosa: .273/.344/.534 and a 128 OPS+. wRC+ 124
Walker: .313/.400/.565 and a 141 OPS+. wRC+ 140
Walker clobbers Sosa in everything, including slugging percentage. Sosa has some higher counting stats but he also had nearly 2000 more plate appearances.
It’s one of the problems with the whole PED issue: Clemens and Bonds are most likely Hall of Famers without steroids, but McGwire and Sosa are most likely not.
Honestly, I think Walker was a WAY better player than Sammy. At his absolute peak, Sammy was a force to be reckoned with, but his absolute peak was 2001 and parts of 1998. When you consider the time he played in, Sammy is a marginal case. Walker was a way, way better all around player.
I guess the reason Walker doesn’t get the love he deserves, aside from the Coors Field thing, is that he spent most of his career in out of the way markets and just was never the central story.
Can I just say, as a complete ignoramus about historical baseball players etc - Rick Ankiel should be in any Hall of Fame just because of his outfield arm.
Such a shame, then, that he decided not to be remembered for his deeds of character and integrity, but rather for a series of increasingly noxious opinions that culminated in the recommendation that people be murdered, through extrajudicial means, for exercising their First Amendment rights.
What I will never understand is why someone who won awards for community involvement and raise funds to fight disease and house storm refugees would decide to go down this very dark path instead.
But hey, only he can answer that. All I can do is remember the words of Jesus, whose commitment (unlike Schilling’s) to community service, opposition to disease, and assistance to the neediest among us never wavered. “By their fruits ye shall know them,” Jesus reminds us, and Schilling has chosen to show us fruits that are very nasty ones indeed.
I think Sosa’s peak was more than one and a half seasons. He had an amazing five year run from '98 to '02 with another 4 - 5 years outside of that stretch that were pretty good.
I’d say Walker also had about 5 awesome years, but they were sprinkled among other really good seasons. I think the two are pretty darn comparable but yes, Sosa has some higher counting stats with I think matter for something. 600 home runs matters.
Another good comp on this HOF ballot might be Edgar Martinez. Edgar got just over 70% of votes from BBWAA last year and is crushing Sammy in our own poll. But he only had one top 5 MVP finish. He had about 2 more years of peak performance than Sammy and was more consistent, but I don’t think his case is *that *much stronger.
The case for Edgar is that he was a better hitter than Sammy. The most important thing a hitter can do is get on base, and Edgar was way, way better at getting on base than Sammy was.
What is more puzzling, of course, is why Edgar is ahead of Walker in our polling (of the BBWAA) because there just isn’t any logic behind that. I’ve whined about this before, but I just can’t defend that. Their careers are about the same length; Edgar is a slightly better hitter, but he has basically no defensive value, while Walker was a wonderful defensive player. I just cannot see how Edgar was a greater player.
The lesson is to take all these “man of the year” and “community service” awards with a huge grain of salt. Very easy to game those awards and they are a combination of PR exercises and popularity contests. That’s not to say that most, or even many, of these guys are douchebags, but the standards here are lax to say the least. Any player, regardless of his actual character, could probably win one of these awards if he and his agent set their minds to it.
While I think some of the awards are well-deserved, I’m reminded of former Packers defensive back Eugene Robinson. The day before he played in Super Bowl XXXIII, he received the Bart Starr Award for outstanding character and leadership, then, later that evening, he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute (who turned out to be an undercover cop).
I would think most people would say fruits in context means someone’s actions more than their jokes. Raising 10 million dollars to help sick people is much more of a fruit than sharing an offensive meme on Facebook.
If you DIDN’T knock a few points off for his ballpark (well, his ballpark for 60% of his career) you’d have to conclude he was a better hitter than Willie Mays or Hank Aaron. Park effect is what brings him down from “inner circle Hall of Famer” to “just a Hall of Famer.”
I think it’s important to note that adjusting for park effects isn’t about adjusting that player’s personal splits. It’s about ALL players’ splits. If Smith is particularly adept at taking advantage of his home park, that is not an illusion - that is real value that causes Smith’s team to win games. (Mel Ott was like this.) If Jones is particularly prone to being hurt by his home park, more than other players, that is not an illusion, it’s a real disadvantage that causes his team to win fewer games.
I think it is that Edgar is noted for being the best DH of all time whereas Walker is not nearly the best right fielder of all time. For some reason players who are great at one thing seem to get more traction than those who are very good at everything.
On the other hand, his away OPS of .865 is higher than the career OPS of Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson, Tony Gwynn, Al Kaline, Dave Winfield and other Hall of Fame rightfielders.
But Ops is only one stat.
Clemente got in for being Clemente and his 3000 hits. He is basically a baseball saint though like Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson & Christy Mathewson.
Reggie got in for 500 home runs when it still meant a lot and being Mr. October.
Tony Gwynn is a 3000 hits guy and 8 hitting titles.
Al Kaline & Dave Winfield punched the 3000 hit ticket. It is a ticket in as you know.