22nd (term limits for presidents) amendment to possible 28th (the 22nd is repealed) amendments

Politics & Elections
1

I’m no scholar and wasn’t around for the 22nd amendment (“Only twice elected”) - (about 71% in the Senate and House and 41/48 states ratified) yet I reckon here it’s “follow the money” and FDR wasn’t helping out the Plutocrats enough and it’s usually been difficult (at least in my lifetime) to “change horses mid-stream” (if that wasn’t coined by the Reagan campaign, it was the first I heard it). Indeed, I could imagine quite a number of Kennedy terms were they allowed to happen, but for the 22nd (et al). Republicans then (not now) would say it was General Washington (who could have been President five more times if he wished), saying something (to the effect) “We did not fight for freedom from a King to replace him in kind,” so it was American Tradition.

WWII was going okay and would soon end. Eisenhower was a great 5-star general and a good President. It was he who warned ‘us’ of the “Military Industrial Complex” and he wasn’t talking about going to the Moon. Yet he was just brilliant and no lifelong politician and he was one and done.

It’s quite something that most American’s did not know how infirmed (well, not entirely healthy) FDR was, how much painkillers JFK needed, that Nixon would drunkenly wander the White House halls at night and talk to the Presidential paintings (legend or not - I kinda like that one), that Reagan certainly was pre-Alzheimers for his second term - yet those were not the reasons for term limits, at least at the Presidential level. It was clear to me (from afar) that Joe Biden was not all there. Even Trump now looks more, okay I’ll say it, “demented” and old-age arrogant than before (and I’ve know him from his slum lord 1980’s).

There is close to 0% chance of the 28th “Annunciation of the King” amendment, yet a non-zero chance of Trump remaining President (Junta/Emperor/Tsar/etc…) after he is so annunciated in 2029. Even if SCOTUS cites the Constitution, the Executive controls the Department of Justice, and though unprecedented in the United States, can call martial law.

Indeed, I now wonder what Trump thought the good-outcome “endgame” of the January 6th riots would be.

Yet we are now beyond longevity and how much “there is there”. My concern is the President daily makes statements that not only sound like his self-loving proclamations, but those of some insidious oligarchy, if you will, backers. To sound Orwellian, “Who is Big Brother?”

I firmly believe - if he’s still alive - that in four years he’ll be President (or whatever). Of course it will be a coup, as it would have been four years ago.

2

I think it’s clear Trump will try to remain in power, although there’s no certainty he can pull it off. He can declare martial law, start a war, cancel elections, or simply ignore the results if he loses, or he can force SCOTUS to negate the 25th Amendment

The question is whether the country will allow it, assuming there is no legitimate reason why he should remain in power. My guess is that he won’t be fit to be president in 4 years, but that may not stop him from trying.

I don’t see the Congress or SCOTUS doing anything to stop him, so “the people” would have to prevent it from happening. I hope they can find a nonviolent way to prevent this coup, but it make take a public hanging to ensure it never happens again.

3

I realize I’m letting trump reside in my head rent-free. Yet I hear the Speaker of the House say if we only read the Constitution we can make what Trump and end every American wants a reality.

I reckon my fear is there is - there must be - a secret think-tank or secret circle of oligarchs/plutocrats - who write up in 30 point Helvetica font stuff encouraging what Trump extra-legal acts he needs to sign and enact as well as whatever clownish extra-consitutional things he can say & do to drive his base and be cheered on.

I told someone today how I saw one of the original Pink Floyd “The Wall” shows in 1980. Three at the Nassau Coliseum in NY and three in LA. I’m 13, my first concert. I knew every word. Still have no clue why Roger Waters was singing about running for President:

Mother, should I run for president? (thunderous cheers only interrupted by…)
Mother, should I trust the government? (lustily booing and Nooos!)

Still, the greatest song about a violent uprising against oppression Pink Floyd did is ironically called “Sheep”

4

Yeah, we just have to re-write the Constitution other than that tiny hurdle it’s clearly Constitutional!

5

Moderating:

Since the subject is explicitly dealing with US Constitutional interpretation and possible outcomes, it’s more appropriate for P&E rather than Great Debates, so I’ve moved it to avoid confusion.

6

Good thing our first dictator is a falling apart old man. He will barely be able to stand for twenty minutes in his 2026 state of the union. He does his press chats sitting down. He will not last to 2029 in any functioning way. It will take quite a lot of negotiating in 2028 to tell him that he will need to step aside. The guarantees will need to include “no jail.”

7

Who died in 1945. Trump wants to be the second dictator.

8

FDR was not a dictator.

9

Let’s agree to disagree on that point.

10

Yes, thanks.

President Washington’s farewell address:

In his 1796 Farewell Address, President George Washington explained his decision not to seek a third term, stating that his choice was “influenced by no diminution of zeal for your future interest, no deficiency of grateful respect for your past kindness.” He expressed a desire to retire, noting that “every day the increasing weight of years admonishes me more and more that the shade of retirement is as necessary to me as it will be welcome.”

Damn, those guys had a way with words.

The 22nd just says a President can only run twice. It left it to the 12th in case anyone wanted to do a run-around. It did allow for, say an LBJ, to have run in 1968 and again in 1972 were he inclined.

The Constitution assumes that it will be widely read and followed (at least by those it mentions in Article I, II and III) , as well as acknowledging it may be amended and if some part of it amazes the Speaker of the House to say “There’s a way around it!” I’m sure somewhere in there Jefferson wrote “Good for you!” If not, we should set aside a special day to praise congress critters who’ve read The United States Constitution and all of those amendments! Whoo, that’s amazing!

If Trump will be known for anything (at least thus far) it’s how much he can say and get away with and we now know he is UN-impeachable. In the 80’s there was a mobster John Gotti who many prosecutors, including the disgraced Guiliani, tried to prosecute. He was known as “Teflon Don” as any charges didn’t stick (the New York Press is clever). One day he did go to jail when one of his Lt/assassins turned on him.

Trump must not be known as the President who could do whatever he pleased and so disregarded The Constitution he swore to uphold. He cannot be impeached. No one on the republican side will dare to campaign against him - basically acknowledging he’s staying. And I cannot think of any Democrat who could run against him and his “I’m staying” king attitude.

11

oops: slight correction

While it’s true LBJ could have run in 1968 and 1972, the fact that he ran in 1964 (and won) meant he only could run once more, either in 1968 (which he declined) or 1972.

12

Recently I read in interesting op-ed. The idea proposed was that the Democrats should be amenable to a third term amendment, but only if that amendment also got rid of the Electoral College. The expectation would be that Trump would probably not win the popular vote (with the right D candidate) and may not even be in shape enough to run for another term.

13

the 22 had a provision that specifically excluded the (then) current occupant of the White House. Harry Truman could have ran and won till he died. Any modification of the 22nd should contain that same provision.

14

I assume you mean that it would not allow the current president to run a third time. But the only reason the Rs would even be interested in repealing the 22nd is if it did allowed that. The Ds would only be interested if they got something they really want out of the deal. Hence the idea that it’d also get rid of the Electoral College.

15

What would they replace the electoral college with? If total votes, I am sure the pubs can stop enough people from voting to pull it off. Anyway, you are assuming there will be elections in 2026 and 2028. Surely national security requires cancelling them.

16

Not going to happen. This isn’t a Westminister system where the king has to issue a decree in order for elections to happen and the federal government has no say over the process. Elections are run by the states on a schedule set by the Constitution and politicians serve a term of fixed length which ends on a specific day regardless of whether their successor has been certified the winner or not. In theory Congress could change the date of Election Day, but such a bill has zero chance of passing and they can’t change the date on which their terms end.

I’m getting sick of hearing this one from one party or the other every four years along with the inevitable declarations that this is nothing like the last time they said it would happen because things are DIFFERENT this time. It’s not gonna happen.

17

That’s funny. I only hear it from one side of the aisle.

18

You never heard about how Clinton was going to use y2k as a pretext to declare martial law and cancel the election? Or how Obama was setting up Operation Jade Helm so he could declare martial law and cancel the election? Or how Biden was letting immigrants invade our country so he could declare martial law and cancel the election?

19

But those were all lies.

20

It’s not a lie if the paranoid fantasist spouting it believes it.