32 dead in Va - why do you care?

The BBQ Pit
101

First, I was almost a teacher. However, I really don’t think that’s why school shootings in particular absolutely about tear me apart. I believe the reason is at least two-fold. 1) It plays over and over again in my mind specifically what happened at THE moment that all of the chaos is going on. Folks running and screaming and crying. Perhaps watching others die. Waiting to see if s/he’s coming to your class next. Wondering if maybe, somehow, you are your friends are next because something banal set this person off. The pure terror that has to be cursing through your veins as you HEAR it going on around you. It’s just almost anguish and yet, it obviously doesn’t affect me directly. Oh God. 2) It’s also the waiting for those who aren’t found, alive or not. Can you fathom not being able to get through to your child or spouse? Maybe even hearing a name that sounds like theirs or someone reports a case of mistaken identity. The agony of another student telling you that they indeed saw your loved one shot, but they have no clue whether or not it was just a wound or how bad, or it’s much too soon to anything. Again, dear God.

Anyway …
[Emphasis throughout is mine.]

lowbrass:
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
I guess I don’t understand, given that more civilians are dying senseless deaths every day in Iraq, that I am supposed to feel more sad about what happened in Virginia. Why? Because we happened to be born in the same country?
[/QUOTE]

I really don’t think it’s a question of “more sad” or that it’s even thought about in those terms. Possibly it’s just different. But maybe that’s only me. I am pretty warped in general, so I never know.

[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Well, people say that either these types are mentally ill (funny, most of the mentally ill I’ve known are more afraid of us than we are of them) OR they chalk it up to “man is evil, since Cain slew Abel.”
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for saying that. For those that do suffer a mental illness but wouldn’t hurt more than a fly (or themselves), there’s is often wonderment why people don’t understand a difference between that and criminally insane. Unfortunately, they’re lumped together a lot.
And my final note on that, which seems to be so shocking to plenty of folks, is you’re supposed to be able to feel safe at church, school and home. Sadly, many aren’t at home, school shootings seem to increase (I’m not positive on the numbers whether they actually do or not, that’s just my perception), so that only leaves churches as the last bastion. I hope for the sake of our children’s future (yes I know, don’t yell at me please) that one will remain intact.
Finally, I hope that your friend is found safe and sound, Roland, you have my sincere wishes for this turning at the best it can under the circumstances. Hang in there. If it does any good, us anonymous strangers out here in Dopeland are pulling for him. To pool, all I can say is how extremely sorry I am. You and his loved ones have my deepest sympathy. I just can’t even begin to imagine the pain and I sincerely hope there’s people close to you that you can lean on in the days ahead. Godspeed to you both and anyone else that is even tangentially involved.

102

Here is a short article on my friend if anyone wants to read it:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/04/16/0417studentkilled.html
RIP Ryan.

103

Damn.

What a handsome, intelligent and talented young man. :frowning: I’m sure everyone that knew him is honored. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: (We need a stronger smilie.)
Another R.I.P. Ryan. He’ll certainly be always missed.

104

I’m very sorry for your loss, pool.

105

[QUOTE=SailBunny]
I can’t get over the arrogance of such an action. So sure, you’re feeling depressed, lonely, hopeless, and YOU are the pilot of your own life…but to walk into a university building, and line students up execution style who have never done a damn thing to you, and just choose to erase them from existence, then I hope that you die 1000000 horrible deaths in a hell more horrible than I can imagine. Its just so meaningless.

War, at least on the surface level is supposed to have some sort of meaning, and there is a bit of expectation, a bit of risk, and a bit of dignity that surrounds such a death.

Perhaps it is just being a college student, and trying to imagine sitting in class, thinking about the assignments I have to do, or the date I have next Friday, or whatever, and some freakazoid god complex rolling in and blasting us all away, simply because he wants to. I know that everyday there are similiar senseless acts commited, serial killers, robbers, lovers quarrels, car accidents. But this was a cold blooded massacre. Theres a difference.

I cannot even fathom how this doesn’t strike a chord of empathy in some people.
[/QUOTE]

  Right.      I know no one in Virginia, but that doesn't matter to me.   You could be one of my students.  You could be someone on my campus.   That could have been anyone, anywhere, and it's the sheer randomness of it all, as others have pointed out, that is so horrifying.
106

[QUOTE=Ronald Salmond, MD]
As I alluded to in an earlier post, simply having a permit to carry a concealed firearm makes it no easier to pull the trigger of a weapon when it becomes necessary for one to do so when your life and the life of others is at stake.
[/QUOTE]

No, but having a firearm gives you the option to defend yourself and others if you have one. Whether you fuck it up after you pull the thing is another matter entirely. Something to do with ‘not going gently into the night’, but to each their own as to how they want to go out and be remembered by others.

Back to the OP:
My reaction was initially along the lines of ‘Oh, crap. Not again’ shake my head in disgust kind of way. But then I saw Katie Curic (sp?) on the news and with dawning horror, I knew what she was going to ask the talking head next to her. Wait for it!.. .. .. “Who is to blame…?”
Jesus Christ on a stick, lady! We know who the person(s) to blame are. It is the guy with the gun. Period. Full stop. End of story. Why is there a need to blame anyone else for some crazy person’s actions, I certainly don’t know, let alone to do it minutes after the event occurred. Sure if someone had acted differently or been omniscient they could have stopped it sooner, but as Ronald stated in his post, even trained personnel can freeze at the wrong time. To expect others to act perfectly, according to procedures, all the time with little information is ridiculous.
She was the first I saw ask the question, but I doubt she’ll be the last. Geez.

107

Channel surfing a few minutes ago I came across Larry King. Dr. Phil is already flapping his goddamned smarmy dumbass “what hath Oprah wrought” inappropriately touching one-size-fits-all wrap-it-in-a-folksy-saying-and-act-like-it-makes-sense posturing psychobabbling psychoses-fixed-in-20-minutes-or-less-or-your-next-Firehouse-Sub-is-on-us therapy for the slopebrowed self impressed self absolving century-of-bonafide-psychology-negating lips on the issue. Maybe he’ll set up a stand to sell his diet book at one of the funerals. Fuckwad.

But please don’t get me wrong: in case I wasn’t clear, I hate Dr. Phil.

108

[QUOTE=Uzi]
But then I saw Katie Curic (sp?) on the news and with dawning horror, I knew what she was going to ask the talking head next to her. Wait for it!.. .. .. “Who is to blame…?”
[/QUOTE]

Christ, I saw that too being used as an ad on a commercial for a special on the subject. “Who’s to blame?” The Jews, the feminists and Opus Fucking Dey and his daughter Susan Dey, you fucking pandering vagina dentata cuntmuppet. She’s been hoping for something like this since Katrina I’m sure.

109

I care because senseless violence is my bane. I am disturbed that the motivation and means for this insanity is eminent.

I try to stop this thing with my fiber and being in word and deed every day, but I fail miserably in the face of this reality.

Peace.

110

Just to let everyone know, I heard from Jacob tonight, and he’s fine. As I suspected, he was kept busy with incoming calls from family and friends all day, and apparently there were issues with the cell network…not surprising.

pool, you have my deepest sympathies. I can only imagine how I’d have felt if it were Jacob in that article instead of Ryan. I’m so very sorry for your loss, and my thoughts are with you.

111

[QUOTE=Roland Orzabal]
Just to let everyone know, I heard from Jacob tonight, and he’s fine. As I suspected, he was kept busy with incoming calls from family and friends all day, and apparently there were issues with the cell network…not surprising.
[/QUOTE]

Thank the heavens. At least there was some good news today that we get to hear about.

112

Uzi replied:

Beyond what I stated previously Uzi, most state statutes that allow the state’s citizenry to legally carry a concealed weapon prohibit carrying a concealed weapon on the premises of a governmental entity. Can anyone provide me with one state within the United States that allows the faculty, non-law enforcement employees, or students to legally carry a concealed weapon at a state funded university? Although I support the constitutional right of an individual to own firearms, regulations that prohibit citizens (excluding law enforcement personnel) from carrying a concealed weapon on the premises of a state funded institution were not the major factors which contributed to the loss of life that occurred at VA Tech. I don’t wish to be too judgmental of the VA Tech campus security and local law enforcement authorities pending an official investigation of their performance, but their conduct has markings similar to those that occurred at Columbine which I believe likely contributed to an unnecessary high loss of life in both situations. It’s already been conjectured that their was ineffective communication between the various law enforcement elements. They had poor intelligence or untilzed their available intelligence poorly (not being at a heightened sense of awareness following previous bomb threats, number of gunmen, their initial belief that the gunman was not in the vicinity after the earlier shootings, failure to secure the campus after the earlier shootings). Although a number of the pictures show law enforcement officers heroically aiding victims, many of the pictures show the responding law enforcement officers in a defensive posture. I’ll bet that the forensic ballistic data will show that the law enforcement officers were never under direct fire from the gunman. There response appears to be tentative. It appears that there are SWAT officers on the seen, with automatic and semiautomatic weapons who are clothed in full body armor. When I was an infantry Ranger our motto was “Follow Me”. Why was there not an early aggressive assault on the facility where the gunman was hold up after the barriers to the building’s entrances were breached? Situations like that which occurred at VA Tech are what those men train for and are paid for. Maybe it’s just the old infantryman in me talking and I’m being too critical, but there needs to be a serious post hoc analysis of the campus security and local law enforcement agencies’ conduct in this tragic event. I don’t mean to scapegoat anyone, but if there were deficiencies, people need to be held accountable. Thirty-three innocent lives were lost.

113

Roland: Thank Og.

pool, Ryan sounds like a hell of a guy.

114

Why do I care? As a parent, my first reaction was “there but for the grace of God go I”.

I’m not sure it warrants continuous coverage all night long on the news, we still have war criminals in the White House and common thugs in Justice that have been getting an undeserved break in scrutiny thanks to this and Don Imus.

115

[QUOTE=Sampiro]
Channel surfing a few minutes ago I came across Larry King. Dr. Phil is already flapping his goddamned smarmy dumbass “what hath Oprah wrought” inappropriately touching one-size-fits-all wrap-it-in-a-folksy-saying-and-act-like-it-makes-sense posturing psychobabbling psychoses-fixed-in-20-minutes-or-less-or-your-next-Firehouse-Sub-is-on-us therapy for the slopebrowed self impressed self absolving century-of-bonafide-psychology-negating lips on the issue. Maybe he’ll set up a stand to sell his diet book at one of the funerals. Fuckwad.

[/QUOTE]

When I first skim-read that, I thought I saw the portmanteau ‘posturbating’.

Well I didn’t, but now that I’ve brought it into being, feel free to use it, it’s GPLed.

(And stop being so wishy-washy about your feelings towards Dr. Phil. If you’ve got something to say, get on with it, man!)

116

When I heard the news, my reaction was it is just another Columbine. There will be school massacres every year in the USA. Based on its population and gun availability.
I heard that in Iraq the other day 37 people died in just one car bombing. Where are the threads about that?

117

[QUOTE=lowbrass]
I guess I don’t understand, given that more civilians are dying senseless deaths every day in Iraq, that I am supposed to feel more sad about what happened in Virginia. Why? Because we happened to be born in the same country?
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone feels more sad about Virginia. But it’s not a war zone. The expectation is completely different.

118

You cannot fix it, you can only learn from it. Compassion. Patience. Empathy. Kindness.

119

Dinsdale, (and any other folks who may be a bit numb to events like this)

I understand and appreciate the limited effect of the loss of lives of those who we don’t feel any connection to. I think all of us are somewhere on this continuum.

If you haven’t seen the movie Elephant, I suggest you check it out. It is a documentary-styled fictionalization of a school shooting by Gus Van Sant. It doesn’t cast blame nor take sides. It poses no questions nor offers no answers. What it does do — or at least what it did to me — was resensitize a viewer to the human toll and the horror of an event that will soon become yesterday’s news.

120

I grew up with the knowledge that random terrorist violence (mostly in the forms of drive-bys and bombs) could strike at any time. I could be walking down the street, just going to class and a bomb could go off and maim or kill me. But you can’t just stop your life because of some morons whose idea of “political discussion” is a pill of Goma-Dos, so life went on.

When I was 8, I found out I could also be hit as an actual target, not just collateral. I’ve always had a low-risk number, but just a few months back a cop who was visiting SiL’s Dad (retired cop) confirmed that my whole family still comes up in the Death Lists. You have my lastname, you’re a target.

So people being murdered or maimed by violent strangers are very much in my monkey sphere. Doesn’t mean I never made a joke about 9/11 - or about 3/11 - or about how the director of Diario de Navarra who got hit by 42 bullets in the gut and is still kicking evidently had guts to spare. It’s part of the mechanism to go on walking down the street without checking under every car.
{{{pool}}}