3D modeling; hardware and software recommendations please...

Factual Questions
1

I’ve decided that I want to learn a 3D computer modeling program to help bring the realism of my illustrations up several notches; I recently downloaded a few freeware 3D programs to try out, but I’m thinking that I’m going to need something a lot deeper to get the level of model and rendering detail that I’m looking for…something like Maya, 3D Studio, Lightwave, or Universe. I don’t plan to do much, if any, actual animation, only modeling, setting up scenes, and rendering for use in print and the web. The scenes I would want to render would need realistic foliage and excellent rendering of animals and water. I’m fairly computer savvy, but I am a complete novice when it comes to 3D modeling programs. I already have Poser and Bryce and XFrog and Onyx Tree Classic. Any recommendations on which software might work best to help me acheive my goal?

I’m also going to be getting a new computer early next year; I like playing games, and I was wondering if a top-of-the-line GeForce card would be sufficient for the 3D rendering that I would be doing (possibly up to 11 x 17 at 300 dpi)…do I absolutely need dual processors, or will a fast Pentium 4 do the job (albeit slowly in comparison)? In other words, could I opt for a really top-notch gaming rig ( P4, 1GB RAM, 120 GB HD, GeForce4 128 MB, Windows XP, etc.) and get satisfactory performance when using, say, Lightwave to render a full scene, or do I need to beef up the system more to even have a workable solution?

2

I have an old version of lightwave, IIRC the rendering engine has little if anything to do with the video card, Massive processor power and planty of RAM.

3

It will somewhat depend on what you want the final image for. Display on screen, or home printing, or for a professionally printed brochure?

I have a fairly old computer in work (Pen2 500,512 Mb, I think), but it is sufficient to produce renderings of the size you are talking about in a reasonable time. (you can always run it overnight if you need a higher res- image, but most professional print shops would recommend 200 dpi to be sufficient for their printers to produce a smooth, pixel-less finish)

The most important thing, IMHO, is system stability. I use Form-Z, with rendering in it or exporting to 3DStudio. I find it Form-Z a much better and more accurate modelling package. It also has a large user base and as such a lot of standard models and blocks available on their site.
(Nothing worse than modelling for ages and the program to crash out before you save.)

A faster computer is grand, but it is no substitute for knowing the programme and how to model correctly.

4
  • Any normal PC can do it; you don’t need a high-end system. Many people on talkgraphics post of still using 300-400 Mhz PII systems, as that’s all they have.
  • To do it really well, really fast you’d need an industrial videocard, and many typically only run on SGI/Onyx or Unix-based systems (and Apple don’t count here). High-end software has advanced drivers that use the videocard for doing some of the rendering work, but even then it’s still not “fast”, it’s just “faster than a PC with a good gaming graphics card” would be. 3D Labs is one company that makes some upper-end videocards, one site I found has the Wildcat III for $1,750.
    ~
5

Thanks for the responses so far…

Has anyone here used Zbrush, by the way…?

6

Have you tried TrueSpace? It’s a nice package that does everything you need, I think.

7

BTW, the only rendering mode that takes loads of time is raytracing. Also check out POV-Ray, a totally free rendering package.

8

Just remember that for every 3D Studio Max copy sold, my husband gets something like $.03. Not that this should influence your decision or anything, but my son does need a new pair of sneakers and do you have any idea how expensive Stride Rite shoes are?

9

Take a look at Martin Hash’s Animation Master ( hash.com ). Great program, great support and a heck of a lot less than any of the other major players.
Any newish graphics card will be more than enough for even fairly advanced modeling. Just make sure you load up on the RAM.

10

Wow…Hash Animation Master looks pretty good for $299…! I’m going to have to take a long hard look at that one…

11

“BTW, the only rendering mode that takes loads of time is raytracing.”
Hmm, yes, but there are other things that take loads of time to render that have nothing to do with raytracing, i.e. lots of foliage as the poster mentioned they wanted to do. If you have 1000000 polygons of grass (which is not uncommon), it’s gonna take a little while to render that.

A good video card determines the speed of the viewports (where you create the scenes).

A good processor(s)/RAM determines the render time. If you want superior rendering times I would suggest dual AMD MP’s and about a gig of RAM.

The most popular 3d packages out today are 3dsmax and Maya.

I use 3DSMax mainly because I’m not currently running on a NT/2000 system. If you’re going to be only doing stills I would most likely suggest this software to you. It has loads of free plug-ins on the internet (which will help making, grass, trees, foliage, water, etc) and is easier to learn. http://www.scriptspot.com or http://www.max-plugins.de
Also, 3DSMax is easier to learn than Maya.

Although, don’t rule Maya out. Maya is now including Mental Ray for free with their software, which is a major plus, because it is very good rendering software. Maya is a bit harder to learn, but Maya users are usually very loyal to the software once they get it. If you’re interested in Maya they have a free student version on their site http://www.aliaswavefront.com

If you get 3DSMax the default renderer in their package is fine, I’m still using it. You’ll probably want to invest in a new one if you want superior renders. http://www.finalrender.com is a good one also Brazil R/S and VRAY (VRAY also has a VRAY Free version which you can download).

If you want more info on this subject try http://www.3dluvr.com
If you’re going to get 3DSMax they have benchmarks on their site that compare rendering times on different processors and systems, in the case you’re going to get a new system.

Anyways, I would pretty much only consider MAX or Maya, either one you’ll be able to do tons with. Almost all major movie 3D projects are made with them.

Good luck.

12

And if you’re a student you can get it for $199. Tough to beat. I have played with and had moderate success with almost every other 3d program and package out there. I personally use it as a hobby. The support structure is amazing, and just keeps on growing. Also, compared to the learning curve on most other programs (brick wall) A:M is quite easy to learn. Yes, it has limitations, but I’ve never seen any other program that gives you VERY cheap upgrades for the next few versions, and if you have a valid request for features you have a good chance of seeing them implemented within the next few versions.

13

I would agree with what has been said so far (although I can’t stand FormZ). I use 3D software every day so I know a little about this stuff.
Maya and 3D Studio are your best bets for rendering. I use Cinema 4D and it’s pretty good too. For realistic fur you may need to purchase additional plug ins. For modeling? I’d do your people with poser, landscapes with Bryce and plants I’m not so sure. Somebody else may know about them.
For generating your own forms you might want to look at Rhino 3D - it’s a NURBS based surfacer with a great interface and a nice shallow learning curve.
The faster the computer and the more RAM the better. The graphics card really only helps when you spin and zoom a shaded model, which can be handy if you’re checking features on an individual model. A large landscape will probably take a while to regenerate if you have all your features turned on no matter wht your hardware is. Once you set up a rendering it comes down to the processor - usually dual processors will bump your speed up a lot.
As far as OS’s I’d recommend a PC. Macs are great but their software selection for 3D is limited

The important thing if you’re learning is to get comfortable with most functions in one program - once you know these then you can apply them to any program. Have fun!

14

as far as demos to try out of different software:
-3ds max has a demo available somewhere (I’d check if you are able to order a demo cd at www.discreet.com,) and as far as the various third party renderers (finalRender, V-Ray, Brazil r/s) vray and brazil have free (but crippled/and or old code) versions…
-Lightwave (www.newtek.com) also has a demo I believe
-Maya has the Personal Learning Edition, which is a heavily watermarked and save-disabled version of Maya Complete that you can use to try it out
-XSI might have a demo. I dunno :slight_smile:

your “top notch gaming rig” would be fine, especially since you’re a beginner. Rendering stills does not usually take THAT long (well, your stated resolution might) and if they do it’s really just a matter of waiting…your video card speed would be the most immediately apparent factor while you work in the viewports, but a GF4 would be fine for most purposes (again especially because you’re a beginner and presumably not animating.)

15
      • Just a friendly note: before buying any “student license” software, you should always check with the publishing company (the creators of the software) to find out if the student-version is crippled in any way (ask if it’s missing any of the features of the full version).
        ~
16

SolidWorks, the stuff I use at work, is a good piece of software if you have an engineering bent. Easy to learn to use too.

And they’ll give you a seat to learn on if you’re unemployed.

b.

17

oh yeah - as far as A:M goes:
it rocks with character animation, but that’s about all it does. yes, you can do other things with it, but it’s a pain in the ass and you’ve really got to know what you’re doing.

18

Thanks again for all of the advice so far…

I have acquired trial versions of the following software so far:

3DS Max
Maya
Lightwave
Amporhium
ZBrush
Photomodeler Lite (freeware)
and I want to get a demo of Animation Master if possible…

At the office here, we’re going to be getting and learning Maya eventually, but ther cost of some of the high end programs is a little prohibitive for me to get a personal copy…

A little extra background here about me and my potential use of the 3D modeling software: I’m a professional illustrator who has been using 2D graphics programs extensively this far (Painter, Phontoshop, Illustrator) and I specialize in certain kinds of scientific and nature illustrations, so I’d like to be able to create my own models of some of the animals that I’m most likely to use often, and be able to compose scenes with multiple animals interacting in a landscape that matches their level of dimensionality…right now I’ve been using Bryce to render landscapes (which takes a hella long time to do, rendering-wise) and Tree Classic to make foliage (I don’t like Bryce 5’s tree lab thus far) and Painter to render the animals and to do post-render work on the scenes. I’m not entirely satisfied with the integration of the painted aspects with the 3d-rendered aspects of the illustrations yet, and I want to avoid ‘flattening out’ the illustrations by not exactly matching the depth of the 3D rendered areas.

19

maya’s default renderer isn’t renowned for its quality, most professional uses of maya involve an output to PRMan (www.pixar.com) or some other 3rd party renderer. Out of the three big programs you mention as having acquired the trials of, lightwave would probably have the best out-of-the-box renderer with max following behind (max’s default can do quite good output though.)