No, I’m not looking for how-to criminal advice. Just want a rough assessment of how tough it is for your average Nigerian scamster to come by the forged cashier’s checks/money orders that are part of so many of their cons. (For any who don’t know, the scam is that they induce you to cash a big cashier’s check that they provide, and send them part or all of the proceeds in cash – the catch is, the bank does not find out the check is fraudulent until after you’ve wired the money into the ether, never to get it back, plus you find yourself in hot water with the bank, who wants to know why you presented a dud check).
I engage in a little recreational scambaiting of these guys from time to time, and I was wondering if by asking them to send me a bunch of their “payments” to process, or whatever the particular scam is, I could deprive them of essential props for their scamming (I’d of course throw the bogus instruments out or turn them over to the authorities, as I have no interest in getting busted for presenting a fraudulent instrument).
I’m afraid the answer is going to be that they are just using color copies to make bad forgeries. But if it turns out they are actually going to the trouble of getting real check stock, etc., maybe it’d be worth it to deplete their stock of it. Come to think of it, depending on how many naira a color copy costs in Lagos, maybe just asking them to send me 40 or 50 “checks” to process could pose at least an annoyance-level inconvenience to the lads.
It’s often no more elaborate than the print-you-own check blanks that are sold at most office supply stores. It’s certainly not like anyone’s hijacking shipments of the paper US currency is printed on.
Many large bank’s official checks* are printed on seemingly plain paper with their logo pre-printed, and they’re just printed on an office laser printer. No multi-color embossing, holograms or any similar visible “you can’t copy this” stuff.
All a scammer needs to do is dink up something that looks real enough for a sucker to accept. If you’ve ever seen a check, you know what the things should look like. It’s not too tough- we just hope that the teller who receives the bogus check has their Spidey Senses on and can say “I’m sorry for the delay, but my manager needs to look this over first because it’s such a large amount.”
That’s the formal name for what most people think of when they see the term "cashier’s check.
I deal with checks issued by corporate liability (insurance) carriers daily, drawn on a particular bank but printed by the insurer, and the only sort of security feature used is an anti-copy print that makes “void” appear all over a photocopy of the check.
Not that I can tell. a few years ago when I used quicken there was the option to print checks from quicken to normal home printer. Supposedly these were valid checks. I personally never used this feature so I don’t know how well it worked.
There’s a big scam out there with regard to selling cars. When I sold mine via the web, someone contacted me saying he was authorized to buy for a client. The client had left a check for $12,000, so he’d send me that cashier’s check if I refunded the rest and he’d send a transport truck to pick it up. As I understand it, this cashier’s check will pass muster at the bank, then bounce back to me about two weeks later. Effectively I’d be out $12,000.
It’s not like most people know exactly what a particular bank’s cashier’s check is supposed to look like, so they can just make one that looks sort of reasonable. Furthermore, I doubt that the people who are falling for these scams are going to try to determine the authenticity of the documents really carefully. They’ve already failed so many aspects of due dilligence; why would they think to check for a forgery?
I sometimes visit the business office where I work, and they have two dedicated laser printers for payroll and accounts payable checks. Both use special MICR cartridges. But they print hundreds of checks each week.
I believe with Quicken check printing you have to buy the actual blank check paper from them and they’re pre-printed with your account and check number using magnetic ink. Quicken then prints the payee, amount, etc. on the blanks.
When I worked at a bank we locked up the check stock at the end of every day. As far as I know it was used in a standard laser printer, although the paper was the type to print “void” on photocopies. I can’t remember if the MICR was preprinted, but I believe the paper has some kind of microprinting already on it.
Bank policy usually says that cashier’s checks should be verified first. Exceptions can be made if the depositor has a good account and their deposit is not out of character. A lot of 419s are naive older people, who are not willingly duping the bank, but have decent enough accounts to allow the deposit. I only had one in a year of working at the bank (and a few intentionally fraudulent checks). It was a “Canadian Lottery” check and obvious from glancing at it.
The distinction between cashier’s check and official check. Where I worked, Official Checks were <= $10,000 and the signature was computer printed. At $10,000.01+ the check was called a Cashier’s Check, and one or two supervisors had to sign for it depending on amount.
You’d think I’d learn to have all of the coffee first.
What I meant was “official check” is our term for what people think of when they go to the bank and get a special check that didn’t come out of their own checkbook, whether its a cashier’s check, teller’s check or personal money order. For us, they’re all handled by a division called Bank Official Checks.
Since most people have no idea if the person or business they’re having the check made out to is with their bank or not, they’re almost always teller’s checks. It’s just that the term “cashier’s check” is so ingrained in peoples’ minds, even if what they’re buying is actually not a cashier’s check.
I don’t know why the OP has such a hair up his/her ass about these “scam merchants”? From all the information available, it seems like only fools, the greedy, and downright greedy fools, are affected by these people!
The main and quite independent reason I don’t like them is that they spam the Hell out of my inbox, which is reason enough to consider retaliation.
And, I just don’t like criminals.
And, a big chunk (maybe too big, but to some degree necessary) of our concepts of a justice system is based on protecting foolish or greedy or foolish and greedy people from their own stupidity.
And, there have been instances of people who are not obviously super-stupid or super-greedy falling for the scam. The reason it’s called a “con” is because there is something in human nature (and some people who are very good about exploiting it) that leads people to repose “confidence” in strangers telling possibly-improbable but compellingly-told tales.
And because vulnerable populations (the elderly in particular) often don’t have very good judgment. If I had an inheritance coming, I wouldn’t want it squandered on the lads from Lagos.
Also, there have been instances where foolish greedy people embezzled money to participate in the scam – I don’t want this happening, say, in my company (where they spam me and presumably everyone else).
Victims of stock fraud are probably disproportionately greedy and credulous.
Should we say so what? to stock fraud? Was Enron a no-harm, no-foul situation?
I find it difficult to have sympathy for people with apparently more money than sense. Some people need to learn life’s lessons the hard way. That’s just the way of the world.