Also, if it is true, what does it mean? Nambia is the second least densely populated country on Earth, behind Mongolia. Would this be a normal deal between countries or colonization (albeit even assuming each family to be a mother/father/child they’re still only half of a percent of the population)? What would the Chinese want to be in Nambia for?
China has a long history in Africa, and hopes to have a long future there. They see Africa not as a mass of war and starvation, but as a prime place for economic expansion. They see vast natural resources, a lot of room to absorb people, and the world’s last great uptapped market. Africans are, in fits and starts, starting to demand more and more manufactured goods. China intends to be there to fill this need.
One thing that China does is move industries that are quickly going to be unprofitable in China to Africa. It’s a sort of controlled outsourcing. By doing this, China creates room for the higher-skilled jobs that Chinese workers are starting to be ready for, while still keeping some control of their old industries.
Of course, natural resources are a concern. China anticipates a HUGE need for natural resources as their economy rises, and most of the prime resources have already been staked out by the West. China is looking in the places that the west passed up as too difficult.
Is this a form of colonialism? Yes and no. On one hand, China works apolitically, and this means they are willing to work with (and presumably enrich) some pretty shady characters. And Chinese safety and environmental standards are not something that anyone really wants exported.
On the other hand, the West had plenty of time to do whatever with Africa, and whatever we did it didn’t seem to turn out well. China is willing to do the one thing we largely were not willing to do- and probably the one thing that will actually help. They are investing in Africa. They are building infrastructure, starting businesses, and investing in a country’s economic future. They want Africa to succeed, and have built a pretty high stake in that. That’s a good thing.
Am I the only one who read the thread title as “5000 Chinese families living in Narnia”? That’s one big wardrobe.
Even sven has pretty thoroughly answered this but yes, China is expanding its influence in the third world all the time, and particularly Africa. Its reluctance to use its involvement in eastern Africa to help resolve the situation in Darfur is a particular sore point in the West. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn they are moving people to Namibia as a form of “industrial imperialism”.
No, you’re not.
I had that double take too.
Actually, after doing some reading, I’ve learned that in addition to this, there are already over 40,000 Chinese workers already in Nambia, making a solid couple percent of the population, as well as over 200,000 in South Africa. I knew China was involved in Africa, and countries there are willing to deal since China doesn’t interfere politically in ways the US does (human rights being a condition of dealing with us in some cases). I just didn’t know their influence was of such a size at this time.
I get the investments in Africa, given some of the resources they have. What I don’t get is why so many Chinese are moving there, and what that part of the equation means for the future. What, if any, change can be expected if (when?) they become sizable minorities, moving up from a few percent to maybe 10 or 15?
You have to admire the Chinese-they are making things better in Africa. As someone mentioned, the West has used Africa as a raw materials warehouse-the Chinese are actually investing in infrastructure.
Of course, Namibia is a special case-it was almost empty of people.
I wonder how the Chinese will fare in places that are densly populated? If the local despot gets pissed off at them, will he wind up throwing them out?
The Namibian press has embarrassed the Chinese over bribery scandals a couple of times, to the point where China once ordered its internet search engines to return no results for “Namibia.” The two governments are very friendly, though.
It’s not so different that what happened in the past. About 27% of Suriname, in South America are of Indian hertitage. Another 15% are from Java origins.
Look at the Persian Gulf countries, they import workers. South Africa has lots of people from India as well.
So why should China be any different?
China is a crowded place, in the social sense as well as the physical one. Think of it like Old Europe…it’s thoroughly dominated by set elites, the paths to prosperity well well-trodden and thoroughly occupied, and there isn’t a lot of opportunity for someone who is full of new ideas and lies outside of the normal realms of privilege. Want to get rich starting a factory? Join the 34,431,454 people who are doing the exact same thing. Every inch of farmland is farmed, every mine is dug, every city is build to the max.
Africa (and Tibet, and other places that are attracting settlers) represents a sort of New World or Wild West. It’s a place where people get get some space, start a business in an unsaturated market, experience something new and get away from social pressures in their hometown. The people that go tend to be entrepreneurial dreamers, who have plans bigger than their hometowns can contain.
I agree with most other posters that China has had a pretty long history of dealings with Africa and their most likely motives for their actions (wasn’t there recently a Chinese effort to find part of a fleet they supposedly sent to Africa a few centuries ago?).
One question I have is, why hasn’t China attempted to spread into places like Mongolia, or some of the other 3rd world border states? Or have they? ISTM they could use the same sorts of tactics or rational (if they went the Tibet route) to justify doing so in places like Mongolia or one of the 'stan countries (or North Korea, assuming they have sufficient influence to hammer or force compliance from 'lil Kimmy and his merry men).
Just curious.
-XT
Mother Russia. (to the extent that they haven’t extended their influences in these places)
I’ve read articles stating that there are considerable numbers of Chinese workers in the states you mentioned. Most are apparently temp-workers with quite a few illegals as well (especially in the unofficial Mongolian placer mining industry). The big difference I believe is that neighboring countries are not as down with settlers as Africa. Lots of these settlers and migrants are part of big deals cut between China and Africa with (as mentioned before) China preferring to import entire factories into Africa in lieu of hiring local workers.
Mongolia has some pretty bad cultural memories of Chinese expansionism. From what I understand, they were relatively ok with Chinese rule during the Qing dynasty until China started to send large numbers of Han Chinese in. Mongolia, fearing cultural obliteration, rebelled and ended up a Soviet satellite.
While trade has opened up a lot, relations are still pretty frosty. Mongolia protects it’s cultural heritage pretty fiercely, and they have Tibet as an example of what would happen to them if China had its way. Anyway, I was surprised how little Chinese influence there was in Mongolia- it is still much more connected to Russia.
As for African reactions, I think African are mostly bemused by suspicious. They know pretty well that when foreigners come to Africa, they are coming to take something. They don’t really understand China’s plan, but they suspect they will somehow lose. Even the infrastructure is seen with a suspicious eye. After all, a dam that will irrigate a hundred mega farms isn’t very awesome if it floods the land you used to live on and turns you from a land owner to a serf. Anyway, in my Cameroonian village we had a Chinese hospital. While people would go there sometimes, the general consensus was that the hospital existed to sell expired medicine that they couldn’t sell in China. Obviously, this wasn’t true, but the villagers couldn’t think of any other explanation.
It doesn’t help that Chinese people in general are not great at integration. The Chinese doctors in my village would violate local norms pretty seriously, and didn’t seem to notice or care. They didn’t really participate in local life. They never learned more than a few words of French, much less the local language. What offended people the most was that they brought their own cook- the team was 12 doctors and a cook. The implication that the local food was so inedible that they had to bring a cook all the way over from China was pretty hard for people to deal with.
Anyway, China will probably go through some growing pains in the process. Ideas of racial equality and respect are different in China, and I think that will start to matter in Africa pretty soon.
Where do you live?
Hehehe. I lived in Cameroon and China, for two years each as a Peace Corps volunteer. I live in DC now, where among other things I’m taking graduate classes from the expert on Sino-African development projects. It’s an interesting subject!
They have extended it there (and with the blessing of the Russian government).They’ve invested heavily in areas of Siberia, to the point of worrying some segments of the Russian population.
To say the least. Half of Mongolia is “an integral part of the Chinese motherland” aka Inner Mongolia. Mongolians make up less than 20% of the population of Inner Mongolia and Han Chinese make up the rest. My wife’s cousin is Han Chinese from Innner Mongolia, who’s family has been there for 4 or 5 generations. Outer Mongolia survived as a Russian satellite and are scared shitless of Chinese encroachment now that the Mongolian mineral wealth is starting to be developed.
The Mongolian President (title?) speaks the best Chinese of any head of State.
And if you look historically, Mongolia went from ruling China (Yuan Dynasty aka Gengis Khan) to being colonized by China. AFAIK, the Mongolians were not OK with the Qing Dynasty, but were too weak and too disorganized to do anything about it.
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Didn’t know you had moved from China to DC. SAIS?
I recently read Amy Chua’s “World on Fire”. Any thoughts on her thesis as it relates to this thread?
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