SNorht
No, no, they underestimate it for their nefarious purposes.
No one listened to Ralph Nader, so why should they listen to the Sierra Club?
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
PAGE FIVE!!!
Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Georges Santayana
U.S. 273,937,665
World 6,024,183,626
22:24 EST Nov 10, 1999
tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
[ok, let’s see if that solves the problem – DB]
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
[Note: This message has been edited by David B]
Jeez, I finally feel ready to reply to a topic; and then I do something like say “over” when I meant “under.”
Exactly what would the UN gain from ‘purposely’ underestimating the population, (which they apparantly they don’t do too well, if the actual pop. figures turn out lower than their estimates).
IIRC, one of their programs is to provide family planning programs to countries where the birthrate is high.
Now I’m sure they would like to claim a bit of success, BUT wouldn’t they do better to bet the hightest possible number in order to scare more support?
What nefarious scheme do you think the UN is hatching where they ned a people to be ignorant of the “population explosion”
JOHNNNNN!!! Why did you put all those damn Z’s there??? Good grief!!! Now we have to scroll left and right to read the page!
Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Georges Santayana
Sorry if this point has been made, I couldn’t stomach looking at the past 4 pages.
People are going to keep on making babies, even if their governments or common sense tell them not to. If you can’t feed yourself, why bring someone else into the world who’ll be at an even bigger disadvantage than you? I’m just glad I’ll be dead and gone before the population goes comepltely out of control.
“I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.”-- Calvin and Hobbes
(__)
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…c.c…c.c…
Damn it! Did my posting the ZZZ’s do that? I’m terribly sorry if I caused that. I didn’t realize that could happen. Why does that happen? What can we do to undo it?
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Imthecowgodmoo writes:
I believe that sufficient evidence has been given in the past four pages to show that none of this is the case.
“Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away.”
Getting away from cheap, if justified, shots at the Sierra Club for the moment:
On another board entirely, someone proposed the idea of “TrillionWorld”: an Earth inhabited by one trillion human beings, as a vehicle to shake out and examine the assumptions of both sides in this argument. Among his points were:
[ul]
[li]That the entire volume of ocean, and the less desirable half of the land surface, be off limits to human use (he proposed allowing backpacking trips by permit into the wilderness areas, feeling this to be a harmless use; I disagree with that position.)[/li][li]That, very much by definition, each inhabitant gets 900 ft[sup]2[/sup] of land area; homes will be built underground, so the total land area (pretty much; see below) is available for agriculture. I did a BOTEC indicating that this area would provide less than 350 kcal/day, which limits the population of TrllionWorld to about 160 billion; it should be noted, however, that I assumed that crop would be rice, grown at actual 1996 yields, and that this is not the most nutritious crop imaginable (I’ll pull the numbers from the FAO, but probably not before Sunday).[/li][li]That 3 quarts/day of potable water will be provided for each inhabitant of TrilionWorld, with other uses receiving less stringent purification. Rain catchment and biological purification would play a part in this (as, perhaps, would heat sterilization).[/li][li]Sanitation is through composting and biomass purification.[/li][li]Building materials and possessions are essentially all plastic, derived from (some of) the biomass grown aboveground.[/li][li]Energy will be entirely “renewable”, derived from wind and direct solar entrapment and conversion (I think that he’s overly optimistic here, but I haven’t run the numbers).[/li][li]For recreational purposes, a football-field-sized area is set aside at every intersection on a 1-mile grid (it need not actually be used for football).[/li][li]For mineral resources, recycling and trash mining are used.[/li][/ul]
Now, as he him points out, this is the merest WAG, and the numbers are certainly open to challenge. OTOH, it gives us something concrete to talk about; we are no longer limited to handwaving and nebulous fears.
Comments? Criticisms? Apoplectic fits?
“Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away.”
If you don’t post anymore, it won’t happen again.
Rich
Here is one answer received, as promised, unedited. Curiously it states that the UN PREDICTS overpopulation problems.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Imthecowgodmoo writes:
quote:
People are going to keep on making babies, even if their governments or common sense tell them not to. If you can’t feed yourself, why bring someone else into the world who’ll be at an even bigger disadvantage than you? I’m just glad I’ll be dead and gone before the population goes comepltely out of control.
Akats
Cowgodmoo, Akats does get that connection yet, more people having more babies, with lower mortality rates, equates to MORE WORLD POPULATION. I’m still trying to scale that hurdle with him.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Akats DOESN’T, IT SHOULD READ.
]QUOTE]That the entire volume of ocean, and the less desirable half of the land surface, be off limits to human use (he proposed allowing backpacking trips by permit into the wilderness areas, feeling this to be a harmless use; I disagree with that position.)
That, very much by definition, each inhabitant gets 900 ft2 of land area; homes will be built underground, so the total land area (pretty much; see below) is available for agriculture. I did a BOTEC indicating that this area would provide less than 350 kcal/day, which limits the population of TrllionWorld to about 160 billion; it should be noted, however, that I assumed that crop would be rice, grown at actual 1996 yields, and that this is not the most nutritious crop imaginable (I’ll pull the numbers from the FAO, but probably not before Sunday).
That 3 quarts/day of potable water will be provided for each inhabitant of TrilionWorld, with other uses receiving less stringent purification. Rain catchment and biological purification would play a part in this (as, perhaps, would heat sterilization).
Sanitation is through composting and biomass purification.
Building materials and possessions are essentially all plastic, derived from (some of) the biomass grown aboveground.
Energy will be entirely “renewable”, derived from wind and direct solar entrapment and conversion (I think that he’s overly optimistic here, but I haven’t run the numbers).
For recreational purposes, a football-field-sized area is set aside at every intersection on a 1-mile grid (it need not actually be used for football).
For mineral resources, recycling and trash mining are used.
[/QUOTE]
SOMEONE INHALED.
This sounds as inviting as a trip to the dentist. Yo, you can’t get people to follow the rules of ecology today. Exhale now.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
quote:
---------------------------------------------[Brille]What can we do to undo it?
Let’s see, you have made two posts to this thread, one invited me to commit suicide, highly inappropriate, and this one suggesting that I not post anymore.
Your input on this topic, World Overpopulation, has been invaluable, but perhaps I could suggest you put your talents to better use. FLUSH
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Everybody else was doing such a good job of providing facts for you to ignore that I thought I’d stick to the humor end of the posting spectrum. Your lack of appreciation is duly noted.
I’m surprised that you’ve been posting to this thread for so long without being more blatant about your real agenda, John. I look forward to your next post containing the word “immigration.”
Rich
veg
Judging from your post you know as much about humor as you do World population. If you had been following this thread you would have taken notice that I did address the immigration problem. Excessive Immigration would just be one of the many downsides of overpopulation.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Okay, John John. Are you willing to accept the U.N’s numbers now that one of your favorite organizations is using them?
I stopped posting to this thread the minute you changed tactics and starting attacking the very source of the data. After all, if we couldn’t agree on that, there wasn’t much use talking.
But if you’ll accept those numbers, then we have some common ground from which to consider discussions.
If you do accept them, I don’t want to see another big list of countries if the discussion isn’t going the way you’d like it.
John John tries again, saying:
Are those rules in Hoyle’s, or do I have to write to the manufacturer?
“Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away.”
Of course, I have followed the thread, which is why I said that I was looking forward to your next post that contains the word “immigration.” See, “next” instead of “first.” See, “first” would imply that you hadn’t addressed the topic at all, while “next” implies that you have, and that I was looking forward to your next post about it. You don’t get it, do you? I see they didn’t give you any reading comprehension books during your last trip to the country. . .
Rich