Flyguy,
No offense but I didn’t understand any of those answers…
“I’m the best there is Fats. Even if you beat me, I’m still the best.”
(Paul Newman in The Hustler)
Huh … Are you saying you consider the tip I pay a server a tax ??
Actually, I get a perverse joy of giving a larger cash tip for good service, hoping that the server does not report any excess and shafts our socialist (leaning) goverment. Good service, good money, why does the goverment need to get involved ?
A point in every direction is like no point at all
i’m wondering along with flyguy here. how did this all start, anyway?
personally, i’ve got no big beef against tipping in restaurants. i use a 15-20% baseline, and adjust accordingly. on occassion, i’ve received horrible service (screwed up multiple orders, poor attentiveness, and in a supposedly high class establishment) and left no tip. i’ve also tipped as much as i’ve paid for food if i’ve been nursing a few low-cost drinks and snacks for a while and the service was great.
what i don’t get is the seeming propensity for “tip jars.” i now see these next to cash registers in all manner of places. i’m sorry, but if all you’re doing is ringing up my fucking order, i’m sure as hell not giving you some of my hard-earned cash. this shit really pisses me off.
-ellis
I’ve had some really fantastic food servers. In that case, I leave around 20%…and I write a note to the manager/owner, and let the server see the note first.
And you tip on the WHOLE bill. This includes the tax and the liquor.
Lynn
If it’s helpful, I’ll compare everyone to Hitler so we can get this
over with as soon as possible.
7.5% tip…cheap bastard?
naahh…I’m a cheap bastard --when I’m cheap. I’m a spendthrift bastard when I’m spendthrift. But that’s only 'cos of my disreputable parentage… 
*You, *aha, are a niggard. not that there’s anything wrong with that! Yes, it’s a real word, roughly equivalent to “lousy tipper” (a bit broader than that, but still…)–and zilch to do with “Negro” (I covered this in a thread on gypsies, of all things).
Seriously, I probably range between 12% and 25%. Or just forget (Oy!). But yeah, it’s left to you, so you can tip whatever you want with legal impunity. Of course, I recognize that some people expect between 15% & 20% as base, so if I only give 10-12%, they may feel shafted. Or they may have a lot of tables and not really notice if it’s a little short (it could happen! it won’t, but it could!). I don’t mean a short tip as an insult, but I may be low on cash… 7.5% is pretty short, but 20% is unnecessarily high, in my (arrogant) opinion. I have left significantly more than 15% (30%? 40%? who remembers?) when I took up a table for hours at a (packed full) jazz club/grill, basically ordering a coke over and over. I figured I was paying for the space.
foolsguinea
The simple answer is not to eat out. But how many slave owners willingly give up their luxury? And yes, i do blame you.
oblio
No, but when you tip on the tax you are in effect increasing your tax. By tiping on tax YOU increase your tax bite.
LynnB.
No, you do not. What has the server done to receive a gratuity on the tax? Does a server who works in a lower tax State, say 6%, receive less of a tip than those who reside in NY, 8 1/4? That makes NO sense. That is increasesing your tax penalty.
In NY we use the tax to figure the low end, double tax to get 15% tip, for gratuity. Where did you ever hear that you tip on tax? What is your rationale for that?
Pas grande chose.
OK, I’m getting in on this idiocy a bit late, forgive me.
First off, John John is correct that it is not within the convention (expectation) to tip on the tax portion of the bill. Admittedly this is usually 15% of 7%, rarely amounting to anything close to even a dollar. So if the guy who minces over doing the calcualation with the pre-tax or post-tax totals is being cheap trying to save $.30 or not is your opinion. Fact of the matter is, the convention is to tip on the food and drink, if you are in a place where you bought souveniers from the waiters or paid a ticket price for a show on the same bill you wouldn’t tip on those extra items, same convention applies to tax. Ironically the difference amounts to less than the fudge factor most use when leaving a tip that rounds to a whole dollar.
aha, a pat on the back for correcting you shitty cheap bitch ass manners.
I bartended for over 3 years during and after college, so tipping is very sensitive for me. Bartending is a exception to the rule however. Rarely does one tip based on percentage, and the type of order placed can make a huge swing in the appropriate amount. I use the same rule when tipping in a restaraunt. If I order a lot of mixed drinks and something along the lines of a Bananas Foster of other time consuming service I tip very well, on the order of 20%.
I tip 15%, or the equivelent on happy hour specials, for average service, but I have no reservations about tipping 10% or less for bad service. Even bad service that is apologized for and attempted to remedy will tip the full 15%.
One very important rule: Never figure your tip by multiplying the tax by two! This is important because taxes are figured at widely varying rates, sometimes varying in unexpected ways. Most won’t always know the rate at the particular restaruant they are at. The biggest flaw in this logic pops up when you order liquor. Neglecting the previously mentioned idea that certain drinks are labor intensive (and waiters tip a fraction out to the bartender), one must understand that liquor is almost never taxed on the bill. The tax is built into the price of the drink, and dinner bills can frequently be doubled by wine and mixed drinks. If you double the tax, the waiter is still only getting a 7.5% tip (assuming a 7.5% tax rate) because half the total bill isn’t taxed on the ticket. Throw in the fact that the poor guy tips out 25% of the drink cost to the bartender and he is really getting screwed.
One last point. I think that tipping is probably a good thing for all parties concerned. flyguy made the point that we are compensating for the managements cheapness. I don’t see it this way. Restaraunts are notoriously risky ventures so keeping the cost to the owner down helps promote success. It is a built in way of paying the staff proportionally to the amount of business. If the staff were payed a flat rate (without any tipping expected) the prices on the menus would go up (probably more than 15%) and not save us any money in the long run. The owner would be hurt because he’d be forced to pay his staff the increased rate whether they have any customers or not, on slow nights the store would lose money, and need to make it up on weekends driving the marked price up more. Tipping to an extent does promote good service, positive reward is a better motivation than a manager constantly keeping tabs on the wait staff. Would you want your service dependant on how closely the manager happens to be watching at the given time you eat? Finally the wait staff in the end makes more money because of tips. While some bad days may occur, the good days even it out, and a very good waiter has a chance to really clean up. If they were paid a flat rate, there would be little chance to earn more than that on holidays and weekends. While waiters get paid below minimum the tips usually bump their hourly well above minimum, a flat hourly rate would likely not exceed minimum except in nicer restaraunts. Tipping in short helps all involved and keeps all parties self motivated.
So tip your wait staff, tip extra if you can afford it. Don’t tip out of obligation, but if you get bad service just stiffing the waiter does little good. The waiter doesn’t know if they did something to offend you or overlooked something, or if your a cheap motherfucker. Say something, explain to the waiter that the service is not up to par half way through the meal giving him an opportunity to make it up. If the service dosn’t improve be polite, but explain that he missed some things, hopefully making the next guys service a bit better, and tip accordingly.
omni
You make excellent points, Omni. I use the double tax as a base and adjust up from there accordingly. I also tip the Captain separately, not as a percentage, if I go to a more upscale place. I also tip more when there is a busyboy, or a place that I frequent more than once a month, regardless of lapses in service. One rule of thumb, if there is a linen table cloth and linen napkins on the table you tend to adjust up towards the 20% and overlook slight errors in service. In short, no one is perfect.
Pas grande chose.
Foolsguinea Sed:
Maybe so Foolsguinea, but I am a recovering niggard. (See my pledge on the first page.)
This has become a large thread and I am not sure if anyone has addressed this or not but…
What about the young well-intentioned waiter or waitress that keeps coming by your table every 2 minutes or so when it is obvious you don’t need anything because they just left your table two minutes ago!
They are obviously lobbying for a larger tip. Maybe they are well intentioned but they tend to get on my fucking nerves. Sometimes after I have gotton my food and drink I just want to sit down with my SO and just have dinner you know? If my tea glass runs dry then I expect a refill but other than that I just want to eat my dinner.
Most of the time when a waiter brings your food he asks…anything else I can get for you right now? Thats when you take stock and see if you are ready to enjoy dinner without having to bother the waiter for a while and he/she not bother you.
If I overlook something (out of table salt need ketchup, etc ) I just raise my hand and get the attention of my waiter/waitress. If I don’t see them I will ask another waiter to please send my waiter out.
But past that I just want to enjoy my dinner without being interrupted.
aha- recovering cheap bastard.
Good job, aha. I’m impressed.
Like Polycarp, I was gonna sit around and wait for Satan to come rushing in here. But, it seems that everybody is being fairly civil about this this time around.
So, to but my two cents in…I quit my last serving job because of low tips, and the fact that we had to tip out to bus persons, and bartenders who were making upwards of seven dollars an hour.
Okay, here is the situation.
I worked at a full service resturant with a bar. Which means that while guests are waiting to be seated the sit at the bar to pass time and hopefully take the edge off the long wait.
Good for them, bad for us.
By the time they got seated they usually had gotten drinks and tipped the bartender, who is arleady making that $7. That lowers our bill average therefore lowering our tip. Not really a big deal until the end of the nite when you have to tip out to the bartender.
Now, the same deal with the bus people. I pre-bus my tables, and on a busy nite end up bussing them all the way so that my tables turn over faster. More people more money.
Why should I have to tip out to a bartender who makes $7 plus his own tips, and a busser who makes more then minimum wage?
I love my job as a server! I actually went someplace new where I mostly work with the late nite bar crowd because I have a lot of fun with them. Tips aside.
When I get the big tips, I know that I deserve them, and when I don’t I try to figure out what the heck happened so I can ammend that problem. The biggest kick is to get a big tip and a great compliment.
Sorry bout the little rant there, but some people just don’t understand what we put up with for that bit on money.
I have dealt with puking kids, screaming children, and screaming puking drunks. Rude people who are just having a bad day, and picky people who find fault in everything you do. You smile at them, shrug it off, and go on with your day.
Let them try to balance 5, 5Lb. plates on a 3lb. tray around tables and kids, who don’t care that you are trying to get though.
Just for one day I would love for someone who doesn’t think people to tip to try our job and see how easy it is.
My favorite are the people who feel that they are the only people in the resturant, when they have sat there and watched your section fill within five minutes. Can’t they just tell me what they need when I ask them. I do check my tables at least three times, so they should be able to get it then instead of stopping me enroute to another table with a huge tray of food perfectly balance on my shoulder, and expecting me to drop what I am doing and do for them right there.
Once again sorry for the long post and the rant.
Mistress Kricket
flyguy said
If you do tip what you claim, then all’s cool. You just seemed to be coming off as a bit self-righteous, calling everyone sheep. I thought you were excluding yourself.
And if you’ll read my post again, I said that if you didn’t tip, that would make you an asshole. Since you do tip, I wasn’t calling you an asshole. So I didn’t insult you. Relax.
Quick misconception to clear up: It is not customary to tip on the tax. That said, I do. It’s just easier to figure out, and the difference is usually pennies anyway.
Now, as to the assertion that it is unfair to tip on price since that does not have anything to do with the actual service received, you must not know how the restaurant industry works.
A wait person slinging at Mel’s Diner probably got the job with a little knowledge of the menu. This person has little training (relatively), and doesn’t need it.
Whereas a server in a higher class restaurant has many other duties outside of tossing you a plate of grub, most of them before they ever get that job.
The training at better restaurants is intensive. You have to know everything about complex menus. You have to know about wine (and these days, microbrews) wnough to make suggestions. Heck, you even have to invest more in your uniform and the maintenance of same.
I always waited on tables that were middle-of-the-road myself. The places I worked was at Ground Round, Friday’s and - for Southern Dopers - Darryl’s.
I did this knowing that I would not make as much money as someone at a five star steakhouse, but it required less effort and personal compromises - like cutting my hair. Whereas I did not wait on tables at the likes of Shoney’s (though I did cook there in HS) becuse I knew that the money wouldn’t be as good.
When I worked at a restaurant and ate at a Waffle House one night, I thought our server was amazing. Way above the service at most establishments of this ilk. And I pitched him to PLEASE get upwardly mobile and come to my establishment. Alas, for whatever reason, I never saw him again.
Whereas, I also was pitched to go to a more upper-class restaurant by the places owner at one point. It was tempting, but I knew the sacrifices I’d have to make, so I declined.
So it’s not at all unfair that we tip on the price. In fact, it’s the fairest way out there. I wish that I could tell every person in any retail/service industry EXACTLY what I thought of their service - good or bad - with a direct vote to their paycheck. Methinks those industries would get a lot better.
Yer pal,
Satan
Good point Satan.
I hadn’t considered that the servers training/skill/duties scaled with the price of the meal. I will keep this in mind. Thanks.
John John et. al.- I still don’t consider tipping on tax increasing my tax any more than tipping on food increases my food expenditures (I am tipping for service). I will recognize that it is customary to NOT tip on taxes, though I will continue to do so.
A point in every direction is like no point at all
Since Satan has pointed out that things are done a bit differently in more chi-chi restaurants, I have a rather naive question to ask: if an “uncorking fee” appears on my bill (in addition to the cost of the wine), is that fee intended to acknowledge that my waiter has made a show of presenting and pouring the wine, or is it something that accrues only to the restaurant?
I recently came across this for the first time while taking a friend out to dinner at what turned out to be a rather expensive eatery (at least for me), and I was taken a little aback by an uncorking fee of $15 on top of the rest of the bill. I left a tip based on the entire bill, but I’m just curious now after all this discussion.
Two questions, one something of a hijack, the other not.
What do you tip at a place where you do the lunch buffet? The waitperson has brought you your drinks and your bill (and your chips and salsa, since I’m thinking of a Mexican restaurant we frequent near work). This has been the subject of much debate at work, with some people saying 10 per cent is fine because the waitperson hasn’t done much, and others saying it should be the standard 15%.
And what do you tip the pizza delivery guy?
-Melin
Siamese attack puppet – California
Still neglecting and overprotecting my children
You know, I generally just throw two or three bucks on top of the cost of the pizza (about $11-$13 - I eat cheap pizza) which would make it a 15-27% tip. Lucky pizza guys.
Eating out, I use the same 15% base as the rest of you and adjust accoridng to the server. I do try to be fair and understand that if the kitchen is understaffed and our food is late, it’s not the server’s fault. But if the service itself is poor the tip goes down. I’ve also tipped exceptionally well for great service and even more for great service from really cute waitresses. I am a guy, after all.
I don’t see myself using anything but 15% as a base though. Where this 20% came from is beyond me. So what if the price of everything else has gone up? 15% is a percentage, not a set number. If the cost of a steak goes from $10 to $100 (I’m too lazy to do the math on anything but 10’s ;)) then the server goes from a $1.50 tip to a $15 tip. Making the base 20% isn’t necessary.
“I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.”
oblio
Of course, you may continue to do as you please, but my point is that it is NOT required, expected, or customary to tip on tax. You said that you tip on service, as do we all, in most cases, and my point is that tax is not a service that is rendered to you BUT A COLLECTION OBLIGATION BY THE OWNER FOR THE STATE.
It is also my contention that we pay enough in taxes and that there is no need to increase our tax burden. Tip on items and service, not on State tax collection obligations by the owner, which, in some cases, is not sent to Government.
Pas grande chose.
Melin, 10% is fine in a buffet style place. Remember, we tip for service. No service, no tip, little service, little tip. Would you tip anything if you had to bus, clean up, your own table?
If I ever get an"uncorking fee" the place better have a wine steward-samonior-sp?, wine cellar, make sure that wine is good and the waiter better give me the cork to inspect and wine to sample.
Pas grande chose.