Not sure if there is really a debate in here or not, but we’ll see…
Speaking historically, what is your belief with regards to the following:
1: What age was Mary when pregnant? What about Joseph?
2: Who was the actual physical father of Jesus? Joseph? Product of Roman rape? God?
2: Where did the birth of Jesus take place?
In which city - Nazareth, or actually in Bethlehem? Was Bethlehem chosen only to provide a link to David?
3: Did the family really run to Egypt to avoid the death of Jesus at Herods hand? Or did Matthew use this to link the child to the story of Moses?
4: Is Mary considered a ‘perpetual’ virgin, irregardless of her having had a reported 6 other children? Or is she considered only a virgin prior to the initial conception of Jesus?
5: Was Jesus neglecting his family duties (especially to his Mother) whilst leading his radical campaign against the orthodoxy?
6: Is Mary considered sinless? Is she thus just as important a part of the story as Jesus is? Is she easier to relate to, from a human perspective?
7: Did Mary watch the crucifixion, as recorded, or not? Could a mother really endure this sight?
8: When dead, did Marys remains fail to decompose and then rise to heaven by God’s will? What was the basis for this story?
Thanks to all who reply, & Merry Christmas to all.
Well, opinion as follows (15 years worth of RC education)
I would guess in her 20’s. Joseph, would be in his 30’s, seeing as he had his own business up and running (no small feat in those days of Repression by the Bloody Romans) and a well established beard.
God of course!
2a. In a stable just outside Bethlehem. While property values wouldn’t have been to bad in Herod’s day, just think of the Location value now! Sweeping farmland, Mediterranian climate and a view ow where Jesus Christ Our Saviour was born! Estate Agents paradise.
Well, if they didn’t really take the flight into Egypt, my Punctious Pilot joke is ruined.
I remember her being referred to as “ever virgin” in one or two prayers, so I guess it would depend on your Flava.
I would say he did so with the full blessing of his Mother and Father, as they were given some indication of his speciality, (the whole concieved by heavenly means would be a bit of a giveaway, and the Angelic appearances et al. might have been a pointer.
She was born without original sin, so that makes her standout from the rest of us immediately. AFAICR, she is without sin eternally.
Plenty of mothers watch their children go on the Auditions for Popstars: The Rivals, knowing very well they’ll be crucified.
Shes the freaking Mother of God, fer chrissakes What more do you need to know?
Mange, you got me. Yep, I watched the programme last night. I just don’t know if it was on the button or not, as I’m no biblical or history scholar.
But there are many here who are, so I thought I’d ask.
So, is what they reported accepted as mainstream historical fact, or not?
Twisty, the programme said Mary would have been 12 or 13 when pregnant.
It also said they never went near Bethlehem, so Jesus would have been born in Nazareth.
I know all the stories, I was taught them as a child too. Just wondering how many are actually considered to be correct, historically speaking.
Like several other BBC religious documentaries I have seen (Exodus being the most recent), I found it rather wishy-washy - attempting to appeal to (and in some senses unite) all possible viewpoints, but ending up not really sayiing much at all. A great deal of speculation and wordplay and very little hard fact or analysis at all.
The whole idea of Mary being the mother of God has always seemed to me to be misleading. Yes, she carried him, but surely his DNA/genetics/etc. come entirely from God, and are not mixed with hers.
you’ve got to be kidding, right. I drive by Bethlehem every day, and you’d be hard pressed to get five bob for anything in there. And you’re also wrong on many other counts. No medi climate - it’s 3000 feet up, hot as hell in summer, cold as a witch’s t_ts in winter. Sweeping farmland yes, if you’re looking to open a rock cafe (and I don’t mean music).
Since I believe that the 2 contradicting versions of Jesus’ birth (in Matthew and Luke) were written only to tie Jesus of Nazareth to several OT ‘prophecies’, I believe the following:
1.) No idea
2.) Joseph (without my knowing of any valid information stating otherwise)
2.) Nazareth, I presume
3.) No (and Yes, Matthew did use this… [see 1st paragraph])
4.) Depends on your denimination
5.) I don’t know (but I don’t think his campaign was so radical)
6.) I believe this idea (Immaculate Conception) came around about 150 years ago
7.) I don’t know, but I don’t see why not
8.) No. I don’t know the basis, but I assume it’s the same as the Immaculate conception, the Catholic tendency to consistantly diefy Mary more and more over the years.
By the way, I didn’t see the program, and these are all IMHO.
They impregnated her with genetically modified spermn to create a superior being. Some shepherds has a close encounter and naturally these strange beings in their luminous chariot as angels. While the mother ship was in geo-synchonious orbit monitoring the situation, some Eastern astrologers triangulated its position to pinpoint the spot over which it was hovering (otherwise, how can a friggin star indicate a point on the Earth’s surface?).
12 or 13 is what I’ve always heard. I’m not sure if the bible explicitly states this or not. That age might be based on what scholars know of how old most women were when the got married 2000 years ago.
As for Bethlehem: I don’t think the connection to David was established through Bethlehem, rather it was the other way around. They were traveling to Bethlehem because Joseph was from the house of David. The Romans were requiring people to travel to the city of their families for some kind of registration.
12 or 13 is what I’ve always heard. I’m not sure if the bible explicitly states this or not. That age might be based on what scholars know of how old most women were when the got married 2000 years ago.
As for Bethlehem: I don’t think the connection to David was established through Bethlehem, rather it was the other way around. They were traveling to Bethlehem because Joseph was from the house of David. The Romans were requiring people to travel to the city of their families for some kind of registration. However, don’t ask me whether or not they really made it there or not.
