Well, I think pot smokers should buy only bags labelled “no terrorists were helped in the manufacture, distribution and sale of this weed”.
[wilfred brimley ON] It’s the right thing to do.[wilfred brimley OFF]
Oh yeah, and Buy American…
Damn! If only we Americans could have figured that out back in Prohibition, we wouldn’t have been subjected to all those MADD commercials (or organized crime, or all the other evils in the world).
Legalization might alleviate it? Puhleeze. Please explain your words here. Might? Sorry, it would alleviate it. Alleviate? Actually, it would go further, it would totally eliminate it, at least for any practical definition.
It’s not that the terrorists are on drugs, its that the drug laws create a black market in which they can make money. The drug laws support terrorism (much like your gas pump at the local convenience station).
I posted this elsewhere, but I think it applies here too:
In regards to the illicit drug trade resulting in violent crimes, I had to focus only on homicides and ignore any lesser crimes. I started withthis report. It outlines the number of drug related homicides that occur in the United States. Table 4 of the report shows that in 1994, there were 1,450 people killed in drug related homicides. By 1998 that number was cut down to 795. The discussion in the report after Table 4, indicates that the term “drug related homicides” includes both murders that occur directly during a felony narcotics offense and those that are brawls fueled by narcotics usage. It also does not include homicides committed by users attempting to get money for drugs. It also does not include homicides where the motive was drug trade related, unless they are specifically committed during a narcotics offense, which eliminates many of the gang related murders that are committed over drug turf. The report indicates, it is difficult to determine exactly how many murders are committed in the illicit drug trade, however, these findings were noted for their underreporting of murders in the drug trade. In total, 676 murders occurring during a felony narcotics offense in 1998 (4.8 % of 14,088), which is the LOWEST in the decade. 676 dead bodies that are directly attributable to the drug trade.
This report indicates that in their review of homicides that occurred in New York in 1991, and found that over half of them “were drug related, often associated with drug market transactions.”
While getting you these cites, I was struck by the irony that the more violent I show the drug trade is, the more ammo I give to those who argue for legalization. I found this NORML report which discusses a book which looked at murders over an 8 month period in New York, and found 6 of them were the sole responsibility of the illegal marijuana business. Although the marijuana trade is a small percentage of homicides, that is still 6 people dead in just 8 months. The study is also cited here.
If you’d like a more personal face on the violence inherent in the illegal sale of drugs, you can check these out. These problems are not only in the big cities and cocaine either. Chris McCulloch, 13, Blaine Talmo, 14, of Glendale, and Nicholas Markowitz, were all killed over drug debts. A Southern Illlinois University student was killed overr his marijuana dealing debt. You also have
Kevin Mills in Madison, Wisconsin. These are just a brief glimpse.
As far as large scale marijuana trafficking goes, the The Dea created this report, which I referred to earlier. Here’s just a brief introduction into the people who supply and transport marijuana: the Sonora organization, the and the A-F organization. There is also this paper which is another small introduction. If you’re interested, I’m sure you can google these people and see for yourself.
Well darn, I thought the cites would come through with the quote. Anyone interested can find the same post, with links:here.
I guess that I miss your point, don’t worry it happens to me quite a bit. What do these tragic yet stupid deaths have to do with terrorism? Running up a debt to your source shouldn’t be a cause of death, but it also isn’t the same a funneling money to Hamas or al-Quieda.
Again, legalization would remove any of these problems. Of course so would the removal of demand for drugs, but that isn’t going to happen.
Hamlet I’m not saynig people don’t die over drugs. I’m not saying drugs are good. I’m saying pot isn’t really an Al-Queda funded industry. And believe me, I know about kids buying and selling jst about anything they could. I also know what it’s like to be stuck in the middle of a shootout when you’re a regular joe and have nothing to do with it.
And I still stand by my proclimation that if the government regulated Pot, taxed it and everything else they do to tobacco they could probably do away with income tax.
My post was not an attempt to link drugs and Hamas or Al-Queda, but to respond, in part, to the idea that buying po doesn’t support very bad things, a point Mehitabel had raised. It was also, in part, a response to broccolli and Blown & Injected assertions about the lack of violence in the marijuana trade.
Ditto Devil’s Advocate on the Dealer Debts: How is this any different from people with gambling debts, etc.?
You mean our Glorious President? I’m not so sure about the “self-indulgent middle-class” thing, but the self-indulgent, sure. (for those of you who don’t feel like reading it all, we paid the Taliban a shitload of $ if they stop producing drugs. Of course Our Glorious President’s dad put these drug producers into power in the first place (link and quote:
Sorry you had to live in such an environment, but I really doubt marijuana had a huge part in the burning neighborhoods. Heavier drugs, yeah, that’s probable. But marijuana? Probably not.
And for all you drug consumers out there: Next time you visit your local drug dealer ask if your stuff is native grown. Don’t support the terrorists, buy Patriotic Pot!
**
If you read my post and the links there, you would find that Yes, marijuana dealers are not exempt from the violence inherent in the drug trade, especially the study in New York.
God forbid you don’t use drugs. God knows that’s not an option. Of course there is nothing wrong with being a responsible consumer.
Touche. It is unfortunate that the kids were killed. I did not mean to imply that no bad was ever done, just that the terror connection, turf wars, and burning neighborhoods is bull.
Something as simple and legal as aspirin probably kills more people than pot and the pot trade.
Just be sure to include everyone who owns a diamond ring along with the pot smokers if you want to assign blame for funding terrorists. They make money by dealing in the black market diamond trade as well. As long as people want to point fingers via indirect responsibility then we are all guilty of supporting terrorism in some way.
You are naive and foolish in the extreme to think that there is not violence over the money for pot. Most pot is not smuggled in from Mexico by happy old hippies in Greatfull dead T shirts and beat up VW vans. It is smuggled mostly by the same people the smuggle other drugs.
The tie to terrorism may be bull, I haven’t researched it. However, the deaths in turf wars, burning neighborhoods, and those tied to the Mexican cartels are definitely tied to the marijuana drug trade.
BTW, aspirin killed 27 people in the US in 2000. Most of them suicides. A lot more than that were murdered in the illicit drug trade, marijuana included.
There wouldn’t be any violence associated with the marijuana trade if they just legalized it…same thing happened with alcohol. During the prohibition, the booze smugglers were often involved in violent groups, but nowadays it’s all run legally by companies. When will people come to their senses?
gazpacho, in the very post you used to quote me I said that I did not mean to imply that no harm was done.
Hamlet:
Leagal drugs 7,600 dead / Pot 0 dead
(1996): “Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States.” (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)
Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, “Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice,” Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15sep97/nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, “Assessing and understanding patient risk,” Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.
An exhaustive search of the literature finds no deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners’ reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.
Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., “Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base,” Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, “In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition” (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.
Blown & Injected, your cite for 7,600 deals with a lot more drugs than just aspirin. It also deals with PRESCRIPTION medication, i/e medication that you need a doctor’s O.K. to take, not the aspirin you buy in a drugstore. My citation regarding 27 deaths a year is way more on point to your comment about aspirin causing more deaths than Pot and the Pot trade.
I am well aware that nobody OD’s on marijuana. If you had said overdosing on aspirin causes more deaths than overdosing on pot, I’d agree. But that’s not what you said. It is the drug trade itself that is causing the deaths I was talking about.
Watch… Soon cigarettes will be illegal, but pot will be sold by Marlboro.
WHEN???
Yeah I know, take it easy man. Sounds like you need to blow one:) - Korn
Besides the evils of pot are being connected to more than just pot
I remember reading that 6,000 Americans die each year due to complications from taking aspirin. I was looking for that cite but it was years ago and I only looked as far as the info in the last post.
Ok, the opium - taliban link is true. You buy illegal opium or opium products and you are giving money which, here to fore, has supported the taliban.
The marijuana link with the taliban is false. Most of the imported marijuana is grown in central america, in fields that are guarded by mercenaries. If you buy “imported marijuana” you are helping the plantation owners of these parts defy thier governments, and sowing chaos in this part of the world.
The ads make some really strange claims sometimes. But a continuing theme is that if you buy ______________ you are sowing chaos somewhere.