I’ll agree with all this, but it was known that there was somthing wrong before the times you give.
There was a lag in the information, and this is where the problem is. This, I think is where they balmed it on the drills happening at the same time. Flight 11 went off course between 8:14 and 8:20, last transmission at 8:13:31.
ironbender, you’re throwing out a lot of speculation. Yes, in retrospect, we should have had procedures where the military was notified earlier, but in September 2001, we didn’t.
Who blamed the drills that morning? It’s obvious by reading the transcripts that the exercises (which were not to start until 9:00) did not slow down any responses. Questions about that were dealt with up front and from then on, it was the real thing to everyone.
What procedures, specifically?
Both a heart attack and a stroke are normal causes of death. Buildings falling into their own footprints do not ever happen. So a better analogy would be: If someone in front of me spontaneously bursts into flames and I wonder how that could have happened, I’ll accept whatever reason an authority figure tells me as indisputable fact, until another authority figure tells me it’s wrong and then I’ll believe that.
The OP to this thread asks, in essence, how can anyone possibly believe anything different from the official version of events. Anyone who questioned the pancake theory was considered a lunatic for several years. Then NIST came along and said, the pancake theory is not supported by the facts, here’s a different theory. That does not mean that the government was behind the attacks. It does mean that people were correct to question facts that did not make sense.
Nonsense. The idea that you can get a high-performance fighter fueled & flight planned in under 15 minutes in the post-cold war era is absurd. Most often these sort of claims are based of a truther misunderstanding of military readiness terminology.
You are wrong.
In addition, the drills in the case of the flight control operators likely helped the response time. The drills ensured people were in their seats and ready to take proper action. The most delay from the transcripts would be a few seconds as one person asked if this was part of the drill.
The buildings most decidedly did not fall into their own footprint. Massive damage to nearby buildings, including the other WTC building is proof of that.
Questioning the pancake theory was most decidedly NOT what was getting people called lunatics. It was their constant attempts to substitute ANY collapse mechanism with ‘explosive/superthermite’.
If someone had produced a model of a differing collapse method (as NIST eventually did) it likely would have been received and examined normally.
Yes they were. The attitude expressed by the CTers was not a case of one collapse model vs another, it was like creationists insisting that their perceived holes in the Theory of Evolution must mean that God created everything in 7 days and that Jesus holds the atoms together.
It has already been explained in this thread that that’s not what occurred.
The OP does not say that. It asks about goofy theories and specifically cites controlled demolition as a theory unworthy of belief.
This is apparently a Truther motto.
They didn’t “fall in to their own footprints”. Acknowledge you were incorrect, and move on from that point.
FYI, in 2003, an ABC poll found that 70% of people suspect the JFK assassination involved more than one person.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/JFK_poll_031116.html
Perhaps you believe there are mountains of WMDs in Iraq as well. Because the government said it was so, and the government never lies.
What do you think is the “official story” and what is suspect about it? Be specific, please.
Or, maybe you can poke holes in my theory:
[ol]
[li]Muslim terrorists hijacked airplanes, and flew them in to WTC 1, WTC 2, and the Pentagon[/li][li]As a result of (1), WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapsed[/li][/ol]
The buildings didn’t fall into their own footprint? WTC 7 didn’t fall into its footprint? Looked to me like the rubble was contained in piles that basically matched the footprint of the buildings.
Why were there molten metal hot spots for days after a kerosene fueled fire?
Since you’re making some specific statements about structural failure would you mind answering my question to you from earlier?
Nonsense. Did you even look at the picture which Algorithm posted?
I’ve read a lot about the NORAD issue. The scariest thing is that a plane could hit the Pentagon (which is near the White house and the U.S. Capitol) with no jets scrambled to intercept, and that this occurred an hour (more or less) after the first plane struck the WTC. One account suggested that the DC jets were given confusing instructions and assumed that there was an overseas threat, so they went out over the Atlantic and could not get back in time to do any good.
Suspicious, maybe. Conclusive, no. Incompetence can explain a lot. However, the OP asks how anyone can possibly believe the government was involved, and this is the kind of thing that gives rise to those ideas.
Prove there were “molten metal hot spots,” please.
Pictures would be nice.
Look closer. The debris from the towers spilled out hundreds of feet in all directions and caused significant damage for blocks around. WTC 7 did not fall straight down, but actually slumped across the street and destroyed the 30 West Broadway building across the street.
Most of the fuel for the fires was not from the kerosene, but from the building contents. Modern office buildings contain a surprisingly large amount of fuel in normal office furnishings and contents. The basement of the towers also contained a parking garage full of trucks and cars. Furthermore, a slow oxygen-limited fire smoldering in the ruins is the only possible explanation for hot spots remaining for days and weeks afterward. Demolition explosives ‘burn’ in microseconds, and don’t create much heat - they cut by pressure, not heat. Even thermite wouldn’t do it, since thermite contains its own oxygen and once ignited burns out in seconds.
Actually, pictures are to ambiguous, IMHO. What would be nice is documented proof in the form of an expert testifying that there are ‘molten metal hot spots’ that lasted ‘for days after’, and a metallurgist stating that said ‘molten metal’ wasn’t aluminum but instead structural steel.
-XT
It’s not true that anyone who questioned the pancake theory was called a lunatic. The original idea was that one of the floors had pulled loose from its end connections, and “pancaked” onto the floor below it, triggering a progressive collapse.
The updated explanation is that the sagging floors pulled the perimeter columns inward until they could no longer support the weight above them, triggering a progressive collapse. But in both scenarios, once the collapse has initiated, the explanation didn’t change: progressive collapse, pretty much an avalanche.
It’s that last part that the lunatics have always had a problem with, and that hasn’t changed.
Apparently, the molten metal was aluminum, which melts at about 650 C. The fire wasn’t kerosene fueled, it was office-supplies fueled - the kerosene just started it going. And in a situation where you have a fire in an underground supply of fuel, which is insulated by the pile and oxygen seeps in relatively slowly, fires burn extremely hot and for a long time. Did you know there are underground fires burning right now, which have been burning for thousands of years?
It cast doubt in my mind. I mean one of the planes basically made a 90 degree turn over my hometown of Albany, which is well inland from the Atlantic. The one that hit the pentagon was even further inland than that when it turned.
To me it seems clear that that the confusion was caused by the drills, which to me makes the terrorists very lucky.
Or as was posted, they knew about the drills, and planned for that day. Which I find hard to believe.
I thought Dr. Jones did that.
Nonsense. This “kind of thing” provides talking points to those who wish to believe in government conspiracies, for ideological or psychological reasons. It does not give rise to those ideas.
