This Dr. Jones? 
-XT
Yes.
My understanding is molten aluminum is still silver. Steel won’t melt at 650C (1202F). No office fire is going to be able to melt steel.
Eyewittneses saw red, flowing, motlen metal.
Here’s the OP:
How do you account for the glaring discrepancy between what the OP says and what you claim it says?
Your understanding is wrong. Molten aluminum can appear to glow red depending on the ambient lighting. This is especially true if the molten aluminum has been mixed with other material such as broken glass or partially burned hydrocarbon material.
Steel needs to be heated to yellow-white temperatures to flow as a liquid. Red-hot steel is still mostly solid. Any red-hot flowing metal could not have been steel.
When I did a Google Image search for “molten aluminum” one of the first links that appears is actually a response to Steven Jones on this very topic.
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/glowing.html
Suffice it to say there are plenty of photos of molten aluminum out there (many having absolutely nothing to do with 9-11) and none of them show it being silvery.
What do you base this ‘understanding’ on?
Steel doesn’t need to melt to lose it’s structural strength. I’m unsure why this point is so hard for CTers to grasp. If you heat up a steel beam to 1200F, it’s going to deform…if it does that, then the structure it is supporting is going to fail. No melted steel needed. If you can’t picture it, think of a cake supported by a number of candles. If the candles are solid, they support the cake. Heat them up. Well before they start to melt they are going to reach a temperature where they become soft and lose their structural strength. Cake comes down. In a nut shell, that’s what happened to the WTC buildings.
That said, we aren’t taking about any old ‘office fire’ here. We are talking about an office fire started by thousands of pounds of jet fuel, burning uncontrollably, and with the fire suppression system all cut up due to the ‘large jet aircraft flying at several hundred miles per hour cutting through building’ effect.
-XT
I use this example in every damn discussion about 9-11 conspiracy theories, but here it is again:
You don’t even need FIRE to heat steel enough to cause it to expand and deform. This picture is of a ‘sun kink’ along railroad tracks. These are relatively common in hot weather in the south–trains have speed restrictions in certain locations because of possible sun kinks.
This steel was deformed by nothing more than the environment–the sun shining on it.
An office fire with jet fuel as a catalyst would easily create enough heat to bring the buildings down–particularly when you have an airliner blast the fireproofing off of critical structures.
Ugh–I can’t believe these theories persist. Let’s be reasonable–is it more likely that Dr. Jones has uncovered the ‘truth’ and that the hundreds of thousands of actual structural engineers and demolition experts are wrong, or that Dr. Jones is a quack? If the NIST report is inaccurate, why hasn’t anyone ever published a rebuttal in a scholarly, peer-reviewed engineering journal?
The truthers need to stop trying to point out anomalies and get with the drafting of a falsifiable hypothesis. Lacking that…
“They are wrong and they are wasting their lives.”
There’s also Sherman’s neckties. In the American Civil War Sherman’s army used nothing but large campfire’s to soften steel railroad rails to bend them, sometimes around trees.
I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation of why a conspiracy would plan to fly airplanes into a building and then “demolish” it in a controlled fashion at the same time. If the point was to pin it on Al Qaeda, you’d just do it with a truck bomb like 1993. To do both hoping no one would notice – that’s much weirder than any possibly inconsistencies about flowing metal, late fighter jets, and airplane-shaped holes.
It is clear to me that some of you are not reading my posts. I never said anything about the temperature at which steel will deform. I said molten, as in eye-witnesses saw red, flowing, molten metal. As in melted, liquid steel.
You’re not going to get that from any amount of jet fuel and office material burning.
I’ve seen videos of molten, liquid aluminum, and it did not look red to me. I guess on 9/11 it can.
Just to add, I’m aware that if you heat it enough, aluminum will be red. However, we know that the 9/11 fires were not that hot.
There is no way the fires were hot enough to MELT steel. DEFORM? WARP, BEND sure. But melt? No way.
No, you are not reading the responses. The color a material is glowing is directly related to its temperature. Steel which is at red-hot temperature is still too cool to melt. Steel heated enough to be molten glows straw color. Therefore any flowing material glowing red is not steel, because steel is not liquid at that temperature.
I have seen video of molten aluminum that looked silver, and video of molten aluminum glowing red. It depends a lot on the ambient lighting. It also depends a lot on the actual content of the material. Any flowing molten material would be very unlikely to be pure aluminum, and was more likely some mixture of aluminum, copper, glass, gypsum, hydrocarbons, or who knows what else mixed together.
This has already been dealt with. Liquid aluminum can and does look red–the photographic and video evidence provided in this very thread illustrates that.
Furthermore, you’re conflating. Molten metal =/= molten steel. The World Trade Center was full of metal, including lots of copper and aluminum (and of course, the planes that crashed into them were made of metal, too.) Those metals melt at lower temperatures than steel.
The eyewitnesses think they saw molten metal of some unknown type. Unless someone took a sample and had it analyzed by an independent, reputable lab, they would have no way of knowing what material they saw. Beyond that, eyewitnesses have reported little gray men with big eyes abducting them from their beds and taking them aboard their intergalactic motherships.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show me the results of the laboratory test on this molten liquid that confirm that it was, in fact, steel. If you can’t do that, then you don’t have evidence. Continuing to harp on the topic of ‘melted steel’ is useless when you can’t even prove that it was melted steel.
At the end of the day, you have this: Some people reported that they saw what appeared to be molten steel.
Fine. The point is:
There was no melted steel at the World Trade Center.
There was no way a truck bomb would destroy those buildings. The whole thing was meant for TV. It was mind warfare, that was the point. They knew the visual display would most likely be enough to keep people from questioning. Most of the other stuff is misdirection.
I believed too, before I found out about the de-facto stand down of our forces on that day. Then I knew I had to take a second look.
Again, that’s a claim that has no proof–the military wasn’t even aware of anything amiss until after the WTC had been hit. Even then, in the post-Cold War peace, there were only a total of 14 alert aircraft in the U.S. As much as we’d like to believe that NORAD was capable of tracking all airplanes inside U.S. airspace individually, and have the ability to scramble an intercept at the exact moment a plane deviated from its assigned course or altitude, prior to 9-11 there was no reason to have that capability. The threat we were worried about was from the outside, not the inside.
Regardless, the military reaction on 9-11 is actually pretty consistent with a remotely similar event–Payne Stewart’s flight. When air traffic controllers lost radio contact with Stewart’s Learjet, they didn’t contact the military for 24 minutes. Even then, the plane that was sent was already in the air and didn’t reach Stewart’s Learjet for 76 minutes.
No. There needs to be no stand down order–the 83-112 minutes of lost contact on 9-11 are consistent with the state of American military readiness on that date.
Copper melts 1984 F.
Oh, come on, now! You’re just tossing stuff out there for the sheer fun of it. The whole thing was meant to kill people. Your posts on this subect are rapidly beginning to resemble lekatt’s posts on NDE.
Evidence is not just a convenience. You have zero evidence for any of your assertions in this thread.
molten steelFine. Red-Yellow. I didn’t mean blood red.
What does it do to other dystopian novels?