Soooo… Mission Accomplished, right?
It’s kind of a shame that the terrorists don’t use it , either. (I guess they have their own constitution).
They chose their own menu…we just help 'em eat what they cook.
Obviously, Gitmo could conceivably become the slippery slope that the liberals are so afraid of.
But also obviously, Gitmo has not become the slippery slope that liberals are so afraid of.
But they do seem to enjoy spreading the fear…
What evidence is there that this is not the case? You have people held without charges, denied the right to know what they are held for or to have legal representation, and tortured. How much further is there to descend? I think we’ve already slid down the slippery slope.
There is a way to measure the slippery slope: count the victims, and see if the number increases dramatically.
There are 400 inmates in Gitmo, all of whom were captured in battle overseas 4 years ago. Few if any additional inmates have been imprisoned there since.
There have been no mass roundups of innocents, like the Japanese internment camps of WWII. There have been no McCarthyist hearings investigating kindergarten teachers and movie stars.
So we have 400 “victims” in Gitmo, some of whom are guilty and deserve their fate.
But we have 3000 victims on 9/11–NONE of whom are guilty or deserved their fate.
The terrorists continue building training camps all over the world. We are not building more Guantanamo Bays.
The slippery slope is a theoretical danger.
The terrorists are a real danger.
If you’re able. Do we know how many people have been detained or deported without due process?
Whatever you think of this slippery slope, it’s naive to argue the government would adopt the same tactics it did 50 and 60 years ago.
Who knows ? That’s the sort of thing we do.
I’m sure that that perfectly innocent Canadian fellow we sent off to Syria to be tortured would disagree. And the children who were raped to ‘soften up’ their parents. And the people who were beaten with bats just for entertainment. And the US soldier who participated in a training exercise as a mock prisoner, and was beaten to the point of permanent brain damage before the guards realized he wasn’t a real prisoner. Along with all the other poeple we’ve tortured and killed who were not terrorists.
“Obviously” nothing of the sort. It’s not a “slippery slope”; it’s an already existing example of American evil.
Garbage. It’s well known that many were kidnapped on mere suspicion, or sold to us for money.
And we have tens of thousands of dead Iraqis. But of course they don’t matter; since they aren’t American, they aren’t actually human, are they ?
Haven’t you heard of the network of CIA prisons, Abu Gharaib, our outsourcing of torture and murder to countries like Syria and Egypt ?
The terrorists are a minor danger. The real danger to the world is America. The real danger to America is America.
What difference does it make if the number is increasing or decreasing? The US is holding people without charges. “Captured in battle”? More like grabbed off the street.
How many innocents to a mass? At least the McCarthy hearings were a public forum.
Nothing could dishonor the 3000 victims more than to use their deaths to commit atrocities against humanity. This notion “some of theirs killed some of ours so we get to do whatever we want to any or all of them” is repulsive.
But the US has added on to Gitmo. And the new terror camps are springing up in large measure because of Bush’s illegal and immoral war.
It’s only theoretical if you aren’t one of the victims.
The “confession” press release is merely another smoke and mirrors plan of the Bush administration to take the heat away from the current story about Gonzo and US attorneys debacle.
The media bought this press release hook, line and sinker. The results of this “confession” are old news but it works to hide the real news from the public.
You’ve got yourself something of a false premise there.
Many of the inmates of Guantanamo were in fact arbitrarily kidnapped by the United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan and turned over to U.S. authorities in order to curry favour with them.
The most famous of these are those who happened to be foreign citizens, and therefore lucky enough to have enough people pushing for them to faciliate their release after only a couple of years of unconscionable abuse. There has never been anything apart from the word of a group of murdering bastards to suggest that they were anything other than perfectly innocent young men.
They are victims, plain and simple, and your use of scare quotes in this context is ignorant and offensive.
Oh yeah? Well, flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag!
I win.
You don’t “get it.” And the “you hate America” dodge is lamer than Tiny Tim trying to ice skate on ketamine, but you already know that.
I doubt KSM is innocent. I would consider it an even smaller possibility if the announcement came from an administration that had not already thoroughly pissed away its credibility, but even so I believe the guy is guilty of something.
The issues—which you are misreading if you honestly interpret them as “sympathy”—are the curious timing of the announcement, which seems not to contain any breaking news; the fact that KSM appears to be claiming responsibility for such a wide range of evil deeds that it begins to beggar belief; and the ethics (and usefulness, as an expedient to revealing actual truth) of extracting confessions via torture. (Which, just a few years ago, I would’ve thought an absurd discussion to have in own country, ostensibly the world’s champion of freedom and liberty.)
I’m not cool, and I don’t hate America. I’m just really tired of being served a plate of steaming shit with an American flag stuck on top and told to “enjoy!”
For reasoned discussion on this subject, please go to Great Debates.
For passionate ranting on this subject, please go to The BBQ Pit.
For a great thread about corned beef and cabbage, please go to Cafe Society.
Lockdown.