The hole is congruent with the engine to engine span of the plane, the outer wings against the bomb proofed walls of the Pentagon might just as well had been made of paper.
Let’s get technical here.
Frikkin’ big hunk of metal slamming wall = hole
Fragile structure of sheet metal against wall = not hole.
interesting, does anyone know what exactly the pentagon walls are made of? if you look at any pictures of the inside damage, there are wooden planks everywhere. im pretty sure the outside is concrete. also there was damage done to the building several layers deep, showing that something can clearly penetrate through several walls (i believe 3 walls)
what perplexes me is that there isnt even an outline of where the wings wouldve been.
Well…the Pentagon was made of concrete, steel and such. Air planes are generally made of aluminum…and air. They have to be light to, you know, fly and such. Pentagons, by there non-fliey nature don’t have that limitation.
-XT
That’s Newton’s 3rd Law.
i guess this is the point in the discussion where i would start questioning the pentagon’s nature of being bomb proof and having an actual military defense system protecting it,
but that would be another thread and another day 'night all
The pentagon is made of concrete and is squat. The World Trade Center is neither of these things.
When you crash an airplane into a solid block of concrete near the surface of the Earth, the airplane quickly turns itself into a single circular panel of aluminum. When you crash it into a very tall thin building made of steel girders that have been bolted together, the whole thing falls apart like tinker toys.
Note the complete lack of movement of the solid block of concrete as a chunk of metal is hurled at it at 500 mph.
The point of impact had just recently completed renovation, including bomb-proofing reinforcement:
How, after the wreckage is shredded and crumpled, could you, as a lay person, determine whether or not a particular part came from a B757 or some other airplane?
It wasn’t “vaporized”. A lot of aircraft components will burn or melt when exposed to burning jet fuel and become puddles and/or ashes/char/debris, but that’s not the same as being “vaporized”.
They may have used DNA tissue typing, or dental records assuming jawbones/teeth survived. DNA typing frequently relies on comparison with relatives, and I’d imagine the passengers’ relatives were more cooperative than hijacker relatives half way around the world. Likewise, US investigators are far more likely to have access to the dental records of the passengers than the hijackers. In either case, neither dental x-rays nor DNA will positively identify someone as being “Arab”. DNA *might *indicate a Caucasian or middle eastern ancestry, but that matches plenty of people who aren’t Arabs, such as a lot of European Jews, American Jews, Persians/Iranians, Turks, etc. DNA might also misidentify an Arab with African or Asian genetic markers - which, if you look at a map, one could reasonably expect a certain percentage of folks in the Middle East to have such ancestry due to the close proximity of those three regions.
You missed the point. The Pentagon didn’t have to be bomb proof (in fact it wasn’t, though the section hit was part of the renovation and so had recently been reinforced). The point is, Pentagons are made of concrete and steel…as opposed to air plane wings which are made of aluminum and air. See the diff? Concrete and steel vs aluminum and air.
Ever seen a car after it’s hit a brick wall at high speed? Well cars are much more solid than aircraft wings…though less solid than brick walls. Or Pentagons…
Night…
-XT
Take an empty beverage can - soda or beer or whatever.
Smash it - set it on the ground and stomp on it as hard as you can.
Note that the aluminum can is now a significantly different shape with a MUCH smaller profile.
Airplane wings are mostly hollow, they’re a sheet of aluminum made into a particular shape. Sort of like that can, but a different starting shape. The airplane that hit the Pentagon was smashed really hard against a solid object. The wings were crushed into a different, smaller shape than they had been, then pulled into the hole left by more solid structures such as the engines and fuselage by any remaining attachments. Thus, what fragments are seem outside are torn and shredded. Composite components may have simply shattered into small fragments without penetrating deeply, or at all.
The WTC buildings show a very rough outline of airplanes, but the walls of the Pentagon are much denser than those of the skyscrapers. It’s the difference between the metal in a chain link fence and the brick side of a building. If a car hits a chain link fence the fence will give, crumple or break. If a car hits a brick wall, the car will give, crumple or break, not so much the brick wall. Also, the car will tend to smash down into a very different shape with a much smaller profile. Scale that up for airplane vs. Pentagon.
If the investigator arrived and was picking up body parts outside the building those parts may not have been exposed to fire. The fire was inside the building.
Parts inside might have been been flung away from the areas of most intense fire. Body chunks can be thrown a pretty good distance in airplane crashes
After both the Challenger and Columbia shuttles crashes human body parts were found, occasionally still in bits of clothing, and that despite MUCH hotter fires than any on 9/11, not to mention in Columbia’s case falling about 12 miles into solid ground. Small pieces survive better than big pieces. Body parts surviving an airplane crash and subsequent fire is not peculiar, it’s actually somewhat common.
Nope. This is the very first I’ve heard of it.
Black boxes are designed to survive an airplane crash. That’s one crash. They are not designed to survive the crash, survive hours of intense fire, then survive parts of or entire buildings falling on top of them. You’re asking to survive not one but several major disasters.
We got black boxes from the airplane that crashed in the Pennsylvania field - just one airplane crash. The other ones had to survive not just that but prolonged fires and either partial or total building collapses. They didn’t. Nothing mysterious. Black boxes are good, but not perfect. They don’t always survive even one crash, much less further catastrophes.
Small, light objects, like passports, can survive disasters that larger, heavier objects do not. The Lockerbie disaster had peoples clothing survive to float down on the town when the people and airplane came down in small pieces, for example. A lot of paper - despite been flimsy and flammable - floated free of the WTC on 9/11 and survived as litter in the streets where the buildings and people did not survive. A passport is a small, lightweight collection of paper which, oddly enough, can survive such a disaster if it is blown free of the immediate crash site before it catches fire.
Try “9/11 conspiracy theory” next time. We been over this before several times.
I have never been able to figure out what the wingnuts have been talking about. Regardless of whatever kooky theory you come up with about the motive behind the attack, why is it hard to believe that a plane hit the Penatgon? Obviously planes hit the WTC. There are four planes full of people with relatives that would miss them that never landed anywhere else. There are multiple eyewitnesses. Where did the plane go? Why use planes in a attack on the WTC but not on the Pentagon? I can see some sort of strange logic behind the WTC theories. There is no logic behind the Pentagon theories.
The most common theory I’ve heard is that, while the WTC was legit, the Pentagon attack was a missile - either an enemy missile to be covered up in order not to panic those not In The Know, or a US missile meant to bolster support, or destroy specific archives or whatever. Obviously, those In The Know would tell you more precisely. I’m not in the know of where my own keys are.
Your sources are not correct. The idea that the wreckage was sent to China and that the Pentagon wasn’t hit by a plane are absurd. (Seriously: you can see footage from a Pentagon parking lot security cam that shows a plane going by, and photos that make it obvious a plane was destroyed on the lawn. What more do you want?)
I hope this has been helpful.
Second. What’s your theory, reef shark?
They did. The remains of all five hijackers on the Pentagon plane were identified by a process of elimination. The remains of two of the New York hijackers were identified by DNA workups from FBI work on their possessions, and were immediately removed from the memorial.
They are not correct. Many pieces were sent around the country as parts of memorials. Many more ended up in the USS New York as the bow. Some was doubtless recycled, but only after it had been inspected.
Of course, some of the 911 nutters seem to think lower Manhattan should have been shut down for a few more years while every single piece of steel was carefully labeled like they saw on CSI.
That guy is a fucking idiot. From your “cite”
Has he never seen an American Airlines airplane in real life up close? Blue paint? What blue paint?*
American Airlines does not paint the main portion of their fuselages, they are left silver. Which will reflect pretty much any color that is nearby.
Cite
*Yes AA paints a blue stripe down the side of the fuselage, but the wreckage in question is from the top of the lettering, nowhere near the stripe.
Point of fact: they did recover the black box from the Pentagon.
