9/11 wreckage

[XT]

I was a bit punchy when I wrote my posts last night but I’m still a bit confused here. Why WOULD we send the scrap to China exactly? How would this fit in with the conspiracy theory? If there was some kind of sooper sekrit evidence in there wouldn’t it have been better to simply send it all to a big smelter…or drop it in some deep sea hole?

I never have understood this CT anyway. Anyone who has been paying attention to the news for the last decade or so should be familiar with what it looks like when a cruise missile hits a building…we have seen endless footage of buildings literally blown apart in Iraq (with the terminal video footage showing the things going in). It’s pretty obvious that this isn’t what hit the Pentagon.

I could vaguely see a CT about the Evil Government getting stooges to hijack the plane and fly it into the Pentagon (mind, I think even that is a crazy theory), but to deny that there was a plane and that it was some kind of elaborate deception involving planting airplane parts and mysterious low-explosive cruise missiles and sending the wreckage to China for some reason…THAT is really nuts.

-XT

[Alessan]

@xtisme

I was a bit punchy when I wrote my posts last night but I’m still a bit confused here. Why WOULD we send the scrap to China exactly? How would this fit in with the conspiracy theory? If there was some kind of sooper sekrit evidence in there wouldn’t it have been better to simply send it all to a big smelter

Because steel doesn’t melt, of course.

[CurtC]

@FinnAgain

Point of fact: they did recover the black box from the Pentagon.

There are two “black boxes” on airliners: the Flight Data Recorder and the Cockpit Voice Recorder. For AA77 that crashed into the Pentagon, we do have the FDR but not the CVR.

For UAL93 that crashed in Pennsylvania, we have both the FDR and CVR. For the to planes that hit the WTC towers, we have neither.
About the steel being sent to China, I’ve heard that for a long time and haven’t found reason to dispute it. The steel was taken to the Fresh Kills landfill area of NYC, where it was sorted, and the investigators tagged any pieces they wanted to keep. That left a lot of uninteresting steel, and I heard it was sold as scrap. Having some of it be sold to China seems unsurprising. I just tried to Google it, but the interwebs are so polluted with kooky sites that it’s hard to find reliable info.

[FinnAgain]

@CurtC

There are two “black boxes” on airliners: the Flight Data Recorder and the Cockpit Voice Recorder. For AA77 that crashed into the Pentagon, we do have the FDR but not the CVR.

For UAL93 that crashed in Pennsylvania, we have both the FDR and CVR. For the to planes that hit the WTC towers, we have neither.

Interesting, I’ve always just heard “black box” wrt planes. And when the Popular Mechanics article quoted someone who found the black box, I didn’t realize that there are in fact two black boxes.

Thanks very much for fighting my ignorance.

[RTFirefly]

@xtisme

I was a bit punchy when I wrote my posts last night

I would urge you to post when punchy anytime you feel like it, if

@xtisme

Well…the Pentagon was made of concrete, steel and such. Air planes are generally made of aluminum…and air. They have to be light to, you know, fly and such. Pentagons, by there non-fliey nature don’t have that limitation.

-XT

is going to be a typical outcome.

You made your point, and had me laughing too.

[XT]

I made that word up of course (non-fliey). Patent pending…

-XT

[Cervaise]

@reef_shark

what happened to all the wreckage (significant materials which could be evidence), from the steel beams in the towers, and the planes?

It was used to build cages to hold the Lizard People who go crazy or otherwise don’t cooperate with the ongoing Plan for World Domination. Obviously, the scaleskins who run the Illuminati are keeping this critical evidence away from the eyes of the pinkskin humans who are being dominated.

[CurtC]

Well, at least the OP titled the thread appropriately.

[jessesheeran]

so what do you think happened to the concrete then?

oh yeah it turned to sub-atomic dust right before our eyes

[CurtC]

I’ll try to clear up some of this wreckage…

@reef_shark

i saw clips of trucks hauling it away under blue tarps…

You may want to check what you actually saw. There are photos of little tents with blue tarp roofs on the Pentagon lawn, to provide some shelter for the workers. I haven’t seen any trucks with blue tarps, nor anything being hauled away under blue tarps.

@reef_shark

so basically this expert says she picked up parts of the plane, but have you ever seen a picture accurately identifying a Boeing 757? actually there are more pictures out there taken that day which show different planes’ parts there (i am getting that now)

Yes, please post any photos of plane parts that don’t match a 757. All the ones I’ve seen (wheels, tires, gear struts, engine parts) do match a 757.

also, if flight 77 was '“vaporized” in the intense fire following the crash

It was not vaporized, and anyone who says that it was is an idiot.

how was it possible to find the human remains that enabled examiners to positively identify the remains of the passengers, but no remains of anyone of arab descent

There was a crash and a fire. Nothing was vaporized, so human remains could be identified by DNA matching. This matching was done by samples of hair etc. provided by the victims’ family members. I don’t think the FBI tried to get samples from family members of the hijackers, but there was some matching done to samples taken from the hijackers’ hotel rooms and rental cars.

the fbi had to seize all the videos and probably destroyed them too

The FBI seized security camera videos from all around the area, hoping to find something that showed the plane. Almost all of what they confiscated didn’t show anything interesting, presumably the parking lots and entrance doors of businesses around the Pentagon, things that security cameras of private facilities normally are aimed at. Two of the videos from the Pentagon parking lot have been released, and what they show is consistent with a 757. Video from the gas station near the end of its flight show a reflection of the explosion, and a video from the Doubletree hotel across the freeway show the fireball, but the approach path is blocked by a freeway bridge. An FOIA request was filed for any videos that showed the plane or the crash, and a person was assigned to watch them all. These four are all we have.

@reef_shark

also there was damage done to the building several layers deep, showing that something can clearly penetrate through several walls (i believe 3 walls)

No, only the strong outer wall, then the pretty weak brick wall at the inside of ring C was breached by still-moving debris. Other than that, it was just office partitions and some drywall kind of interior office walls.

@reef_shark

i guess this is the point in the discussion where i would start questioning the pentagon’s nature of being bomb proof

The Pentagon’s exterior walls were reinforced to help protect against bomb blasts, not against 100-ton jetliners flying 500 mph.

and having an actual military defense system protecting it

The Pentagon is a giant office building - it didn’t have a military defense system, other than security guards with guns.

[Alessan]

@jessesheeran

so what do you think happened to the concrete then?

oh yeah it turned to sub-atomic dust right before our eyes

Sub-atomic dust? You mean, like, a cloud of quarks?

[FinnAgain]

@jessesheeran

so what do you think happened to the concrete then?

oh yeah it turned to sub-atomic dust right before our eyes

What sub-atomic particle, exactly, is concrete?

I was in NY that day. I watched the towers’ plume of smoke from the roof of my office building. And days later, even on Long Island, when you walked out your front door you could smell it, and you knew that it was a gigantic open-air crematorium.

Dishonoring the memory of thousands of murdered people by inventing patently ludicrous claims of “sub-atomic dust” is shameful.

[XT]

I think it’s pretty clear that the concrete was shipped under green tarps to India. The office furniture was shipped under red tarps to Russia (heh). The alien power cells were shipped under purple tarps to New Mexico…
Now that this has all been cleared up does anyone know what happened to the (train) wreckage of a thread and the OP? Personally, I think the OP was shipped out under a yellow tarp to France (I keed, I keed!)…

-XT

[jessesheeran]

i knew when i was typing “sub-atomic” i would get flagged for BS. The mistake is mine. i have no background in chemistry and i did not mean to treat the subject matter lightly or offend anyone with my off-handed charactherization…

however…

the concrete at WTC was made really really small

from: 9-11 Research: Concrete Pulverization

Twin Towers’ Concrete Turned to Dust in Mid-Air
A striking feature of the Twin Towers’ destruction was the pulverization of most of the concrete into gravel and dust before it hit the ground. This is evident from the explosive mushrooming of the towers into vast clouds of concrete as they fell, and from the fact that virtually no large pieces of concrete were found at Ground Zero, only twisted pieces of steel. 1 Estimates put the size of the particles, which also included gypsum and hydrocarbons, in the ten- to 100-micron range. 2

their reference for the size of the particles from World Trade Center Dust Analysis Offers Good News For New Yorkers | ScienceDaily

The fact that the particles were primarily above 10 micrometers in diameter…

[Jenaroph]

My grandparents were living on one of the little barrier islands in southern NJ at the time. They said that for days after 9/11, debris from the collapse was washing up on the beach, over 100 miles from Manhattan. The concrete dust didn’t disappear, or need to be removed. It just spread.

[AndrewL]

I"d be curious to know how allegedly vaporized concrete fits into the conspiracy theories. The concrete floor slabs in the WTC towers were not part of the primary structure, and would not need to be destroyed in order to bring the buildings down. Hypothetical demolition explosives would be placed on the steel beams and trusses that made up the main structure of the building and would do little direct damage to the concrete flooring. To speculate that the concrete floor slabs were damaged by something other than falling and being crushed when the building collapsed does not actually support the conspiracy theories. Even if someone was intending to secretly demolish the buildings, there would be no reason to add the completely superfluous excess explosives needed to destroy the concrete flooring when merely severing the steel beams supporting them would be sufficient. The only reason claims of pulverized concrete come up is because the 9/11 conspiracy movement isn’t about coming up with a plausible alternate theory, but is simply about pointing out alleged anomalies that the conspiracy theorist thinks conflicts with the official account.

Of course, like many such alleged anomalies, this one isn’t true. There was quite a bit of concrete found in the rubble pile. Broken up as you’d expect it to be, but not reduced to subatomic particles or whatever is claimed. The large amounts of fine dust produced actually seem to be mostly due to drywall. Drywall forms dust very easily, and there was a lot of drywall in the twin towers.

[Algorithm]

@jessesheeran

the concrete at WTC was made really really small

Ok, let’s assume that is true.

So what?

[XT]

One word: Alien death ray…

-XT

[jessesheeran]

Andrew L
that was a great post and thought provoking

it still seems to me that concrete would break into large chunks, instead of pulverizing

To speculate that the concrete floor slabs were damaged by something other than falling and being crushed when the building collapsed does not actually support the conspiracy theories.

explain to me exactly how… certainly not just from the falling, as we saw clouds of dust before it hit the ground,
so that leaves…
being crushed.
which under the official theory says that the steel beams failed, and the concrete couldn’t support the weight of the building and was crushed.
but suppose you just stacked concrete slabs, one on top of another, infinitely, until you reached the point where the bottom slabs are not made to shoulder the weight of the slabs above it. when you put the last slab on top, the slab that breaks the camels back, would it – pulverize?? from the top down?? i think there might be cracks and splits and it would all fall over and break some more, big mess, etc…

The only reason claims of pulverized concrete come up is because the 9/11 conspiracy movement isn’t about coming up with a plausible alternate theory, but is simply about pointing out alleged anomalies that the conspiracy theorist thinks conflicts with the official account.

i disagree, there are plausible alternate theories out there, namely Steve E. Jones discovery that thermite was used to cut the steel, “Why Indeed did the WTC buildings Completely Collapse”
–but whater the case-- there is absolutely nothing wrong just pointing out anomalies in the official theory
one could even go on to say
from: http://stj911.org/hypotheses/alternative.html (also the place to find a .pdf of the Steve E Jones paper)

…a disproof of the collapse theory in its most general form constitutes a proof of the demolition theory in its most general form.

There was quite a bit of concrete found in the rubble pile. Broken up as you’d expect it to be, but not reduced to subatomic particles or whatever is claimed.

could you show a cite? Here are three pictures of the rubble.

[FinnAgain]

@xtisme

One word: Alien death ray…

Pshaw. It obviously couldn’t be one of those, since that technology is still stuck back at 1920’s levels.