NTSB report on the crash of Payne Stewart’s Learjet
So the last contact was at approximately 0927:18. It took nearly half an hour from last contact to the point where the pilot of an F-16 that happened to be close enough to intercept and investigate to attempt to make contact with the Learjet.
Just posting a comparison to the 9/11 flights.
They were doing whatever they would normally be doing that day. What they weren’t doing was making plans to shoot down civil aircraft over the USA.
As to the Stock Market stuff you’ve been mentioning, well, the attacks paralysed things for us in London. Many important data links and servers were destroyed or cut off by the fact that some very large office buildings in one of the major world financial centres were destroyed. At my (then) employers, 3000-odd miles away, we were adversely affected for weeks. It’s not at all surprising that the markets were closed.
Anyhow, you didn’t even know they were closed, did you?
WILL you at least ATTEMPT to get some facts straight? Reinforcing concrete and masonry is done with STEEL. Airplanes are made mostly of ALUMINUM. They are NOT the same metal at all!
Gah!
No, just an army/navy surplus wool sock on a pole for wind direction. If the roof is dry the weather is good, if the roof is wet, it’s raining, and if the roof has snow on it, it’s winter.
OK, that made me laugh. The image of a manky old OD sock on a pole instead of a proper windsock. It reminded me of a Bob Stevens cartoon about supply difficulties in WWII. 
It only needed to crash through one, the outermost. A bulldozer effect took care of the rest. This effect is clearly seen in the WTC 2 crash, plane went in one side and a bunch of debris got pushed out the opposite side.
In Air War Over America it is documented that General Arnold of NORAD didn’t pull out of the war game titled Vigilant Guardian until reports of flight 93 being hijacked were coming in. That was at 9:16, a total of 54 minutes after it was known that flight 11 was a hijacking. 22 What took so long? Were there still “false blips” on FAA radar screens at this time?
There were likely false blips on screen even after 9:16. The Kean Commission’s report introduced “phantom flight-11” as being reported by the FAA at 9:25 on 9/11. The FAA reported flight 11 was heading to Washington D.C. at that time when in fact it had already struck the World Trade Center. The Kean Commission’s report stated they were “unable to locate the source of the mistaken FAA information.” 23
“Phantom flight-11” was a false blip, but since the war games are classified, specific information on “false blips” and other details can’t be reported.
Now imagine being an air traffic controller with both real planes and “false blips” simulating hijackings on your screens when suddenly there are real, multiple, hijackings. Where do you send the few Air Force fighters that you have? You can’t guess wrong, you don’t have enough assets for that. The FAA doesn’t even make that decision, the military does. The Kean Commission managed to scapegoat the FAA in their report, but the Air Force itself confirmed the FAA did its job properly on 9/11 in Air War Over America. 24
There were more 9/11 war games including Northern Guardian, Northern Denial (recently confirmed by an Assistant Editor at Harper’s magazine) and an unnamed National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) drill for a plane crashing into NRO headquarters at precisely the time of an actual crash in New York.
Former counter-terrorism advisor Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: “Secret Service had a system that allowed them to see what FAA’s radar was seeing.” The Kean Commission (also known as the 9/11 Commission) would have us believe that the chain of command on 9/11 was a complex web, but in reality the Secret Service had the authority to communicate presidential and vice presidential orders directly to fighter pilots in the air. 2
In Air War Over America, a book commissioned by the Air Force documenting the morning of 9/11, it is stated that the FAA contacted Otis Air Force base informing them Flight 11 was headed to Manhattan and had lost its identification signal by 8:30. 3 This indicates Secret Service was in the loop by the same time, or shortly thereafter, since they are able to see FAA radar screens in real time and FAA is reaching out to the military. There is no question that by 8:45 at the absolute latest, likely much earlier, Secret Service is in the decision-making loop. They were most likely in the loop after 8:15 when flight 11 turned its transponder off.
National Special Security Event
It is the Secret Service who has the legal mandate to take supreme command in case of a scheduled major event - or an unplanned major emergency - on American soil; these are designated “National Special Security Events.” The Atlanta Olympic Games and the Republican & Democratic National Conventions are notable examples of NSSE’s. In preparation, the Secret Service runs training initiatives of simulated attacks and field exercises for such events. 4
The Secret Service works with state and local authorities as well as the military to coordinate security efforts; it has the best communication system of any agency in the country; and its personnel are always present with both the President and Vice President - making it the perfect agency to take supreme command in case of a major emergency on American soil. 5
When 9/11 occurred, the legal framework was in place to allow the Secret Service to take supreme command over any and all American agencies, including the Air Force. 6
Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: “I was amazed at the speed of the decisions coming from Cheney and, through him, from Bush.” 7 This is to be expected. Everything was in place for the Commander in Chief to be calling all the shots as the 9/11 plot unfolded, but Bush was in an elementary school reading about goats with Secret Service agents right beside him.
Bush’s Secret Service detail was in real-time communication not only with the FAA, but also the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center), into which Dick Cheney had reportedly been whisked by the Secret Service. While Bush continued his elementary school photo-op after being told, “America is under attack,” Ari Fleischer - according to the Washington Times, 10/7/02 - caught the president’s eye and held up a handwritten sign that said “DON’T SAY ANYTHING YET.” 8 Bush was intentionally being kept out of the decision-making loop during the critical moments of 9/11. The Vice President has no place in the official military chain of command.9
Thus far we have established that:
Secret Service was the supreme command on 9/11.
Bush was not in the role of Commander in Chief at critical times on 9/11.
The acting Commander in Chief as the 9/11 plot unfolded was Dick Cheney
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml
if the site is a “kook” CT site then are the books and AF COs made up too?
An airplane made mostly of aluminum, all the way around, leaves only a fraction of itself in a concrete wall. The engines in the plane are located outside the body correct? You misinterpreted my statement there, i think.
If the Pentagon was made of steel then we would have a similar picture to that of the WTC.
No, you have almost as much problems communicating as you do using logic.
No, the “reinforced” part of “reinforced masonry” and “reinforced concrete” is STEEL BARS which, by the way, are clearly visible in the damage photos of the Pentagon.
Tell me - are you this ignorant by nature, or do you work hard at it? This is almost as bad as you being unaware the stock market was closed for days after 9/11
OK fellas, i have now posted links to several sites, the majority of which im sure will not be fully read by any of you. In any case, Im going to take a vacay from this subject and simply do research on my own, without providing constant updates.
If I have offended any of you I apologize, that was never my intention.
Take it easy
Ok you got me one last time here,
steel bars as well as WOOD was clearly visible. Aluminum vs. Wood?
I know I’m coming to this waaaay too late, but I love providing this cite, because it’s just hilarious.
Yes there is. Go to this website. Yes, the website is run by a conspiracy theory nutjob, that’s what makes it so funny. Check the photos from question five. Note superimposed outline of 757. Note heavy damage in the Pentagon spanning the engines and fuselage. Note the lighter damage on either side precisely the width of the wings.
Note nutjob question as to why the wings caused no damage. There are none so blind…
Broomstick do not worry about this. I am not trying to make you angry. If it is angering you maybe you need a vacay from this as well. In any case we all know you are an expert in piloting. Rest assured. Later
Wood likely from scaffolding used during the renovation work, though some of it is so wrecked it’s hard to say.
That was a simulated plane crash for an evacuation drill; such drills are common for buildings that are near airport landing patterns (NRO is close to Dulles). No real plane was involved.
The Secret Service needed time to figure out where to put him!
No, actually I am NOT an expert in piloting (although I am quite competent). The real experts for these discussions are people like LSLGuy and Pilot141 - but I expect they’re off doing useful things at the moment.
And you’d be saying the similarity proves a conspiracy.
This link of Peter Meyer’s piece goes in a different direction of Jim Hoffman’s site, but has some similarities. Do you know who Peter Meyer is? Jim Hoffman has the 911 research site you used earlier, said he’s never met him, and knows of no one that has. What little blogs I’ve read of others commenting on Meyer’s isn’t the least bit flattering, and he seems to have his share of cognitive deficiencies.
E.g., Jim Hoffman states Meyers has articles in which the plane crashes at the WTC were faked. Hoffman doesn’t take this position. A great deal more of it is here with Meyers not being kind to Hoffman:
http://911research.com/essays/st911/index.html
I think at this time, it would be important to know where you stand since these links differ in their arguments. You are using both of these sites without really stating where you stand, and it seems a waste of time commenting on different aspects, and I don’t want to be told by you later, that you really don’t hold that position, and was only throwing it out there for food for thought.
Surely, you have an opinion on at least this aspect on whether or not there were planes involved or that they were fake. Yes or no? We are 8 pages into this thread, and other than you always going against what mainstream media and sources find while finding comfort with just about any CT site out there, you don’t seem to commit to any of it.
If you sincerely don’t have a position on most or any of this, and basically only have questions, I’m not sure why you posted on GD.
Actually, as already pointed out in this photo posted by GIGObuster 34 minutes before your post to which I am responding, the damage to the walls for the width of the wings was rather hard to miss once the fire crews got out of the way.
As with your weird claim that the stock market only closed “2 or 3” times, (probably due to war), you are basing questions on your own lack of knowledge about claims that are easily refuted (and have been refuted for years).
At a certain point, when the overwhelming number of “questions” have long since been answered, I would think that someone actually seeking the truth would begin to challenge the Conspiracy Kooks rather than the people who recognize what actually happened.
Or in Reef Shark’s case, just leave the discussion… I’m Taking My Ball And Go Home Strategy
