Is it possible to discuss politics without it turning into the usual ie “all labour voters are kestrel-strangling povs”, “all Tories are weak chinned toffs” “all lib-dems are pointless beardies” etc etc? Got to be worth a try.
Lets try and keep to the arguments and avoid ad hominem attacks, if at all possible. Partisan is OK though.
Here are a few suggested topics:
The Tory revival: Is it happening or are they dead in the water? Will Howard make a difference, bring a greater credibility and lay a glove or two on Blair, or is it a lost cause?
Chirac Visit: Does this prove that Britain is on a collision cause with Europe over defence and federalism. Or is it a storm in a teacup?
The Blair/Brown rift: Does it exist? Does it matter? Where do both go from here?
The West Lothian Question: England now has foundation Hospitals because of the votes of Scottish MPs. Can this be allowed to go on? If not – what do we do?
What to do with the Lords? Is the current arrangement acceptable? If not where do we go from here?
These are just suggestions, feel free to ignore and add your own. My partisan answers are below in a separate post.
The Tory revival: Is it happening or are they dead in the water? Will Howard make a difference, bring a greater credibility and lay a glove or two on Blair, or is it a lost cause?
Howard is a match for Blair, but is two years (at least) too late. He will inflict some damage on Blair and will raise tory morale and image, but we are too close to the next election to make any real difference. He might get us within hailing distance to mount a challenge for the election after next.
Chirac Visit: Does this prove that Britain is on a collision cause with Europe over defence and federalism. Or is it a storm in a teacup?
I have no idea what we are doing in Europe. It has been an unmitigated disaster as far as I can see and I would be strongly in favour of leaving. I think the mutual incomprehension of Chirac and Blair illustrate that we have no place in the EU.
The Blair/Brown rift: Does it exist? Does it matter? Where do both go from here?
Does it exist - yes. Does it matter? Not yet. After the election could be different though.
The West Lothian Question: England now has foundation Hospitals because of the votes of Scottish MPs. Can this be allowed to go on? If not – what do we do?
Scottish MPs should not be allowed to vote on purely English matters (and vice versa). The position with the welsh is a bit trickier though.
What to do with the Lords? Is the current arrangement acceptable? If not where do we go from here?
Strangling a kestrel is not the same thing as choking a chicken.
They are crude strereo types of the traditional supporters of the three main parties - labour working class northeners, tories landed rich types, lib dem, guradian readers given to beards and sandals.
Incidentally, the “West Lothan question” probably suits the Labour Party very well, and will suit even more, should the number of Conservative in England increase. Not fair, but then, it wasn’t terrifically fair when there was a Conservative government, but with very few Tory M.P.s in Scotland.
Incidentally, Scottish National Party M.P.s refrain from voting on purely English matters, as (I think) do those of Plaid Cymru.
Because, to Blairs obvious discomfort, chirac lead on a european Defense Force (bad idea) a synchronisation of commercial taxation (appaling idea) and stated that (papraphrase) the “big decsions” should be left to the original six members - in effect France and Germany.
I think that this shows that at a deep level the aims and objectives of UK and EU are too divergent to allow us to stay in the EU.
We should aim for some sort of semi-detached existence ie be in EFTRA/EEA not the EU.
would you be in favour of pulling out of N.A.T.O. also?
You keep saying “bad idea” and “appalling idea” without anything to back your statements up.
I’m not entirely fond of an EU defence force (it compromises Irish neutrality, for one) but I’m not going to come out and dismiss it wholesale without backing it up.
What I meant was that the Welsh Assembly has less devolved power that the Scots one, and as such has more common legislation with the Westminster Parliament, so there are croos-over measures.
The misprepresentation inherent in some of those points have a slight whiff of december about them, owl. Do be careful.
The Tories have written off the next election. Howard is being given a last hurrah to reward his long service and to score some punches in PMQ’s. Portillo, Clrke or A.N. Other will rise in order to mount an actual challenge in 2009 or whenever.
Britain needs (or thinks it needs) the Special Relationship. It will go as far as it can with Europe without jeopardising it. I do not think Britain needs the SP any more and should become a federal member of the US of E as soon as possible, since this is one step towards a world democracy and countries are silly.
Brown (or A.N. Other) will mount a leadership challenge early in the next Labour parliament to counter the threat of the new Tory leader, after Tony Blair PM (anag.: I’m Tory plan “B”) goes against the electorate and/or the party once too many.
West Lothianism is no great shakes in my book. Every system has its irritating flaws.
From now on, a list of Lords candidates to be nominated, from which new members are elected on Local/General election day.
The misprepresentation inherent in some of those points have a slight whiff of december about them, owl. Do be careful.
The Tories have written off the next election. Howard is being given a last hurrah to reward his long service and to score some punches in PMQ’s. Portillo, Clarke or A.N. Other will rise in order to mount an actual challenge in 2009 or whenever.
Britain needs thinks it needs the Special Relationship. It will go as far as it can with Europe without jeopardising it. I do not think Britain needs the SR any more and should become a federal member of the US of E as soon as possible, since this is one step towards a world democracy and countries are silly.
Brown (or A.N. Other) will mount a leadership challenge early in the next Labour parliament to counter the threat of the new Tory leader, after Tony Blair PM (anag.: I’m Tory plan “B”) goes against the electorate and/or the party once too many.
West Lothianism is no great shakes in my book. Every system has its irritating flaws.
From now on, a list of Lords candidates to be nominated, from which new members are elected on Local/General election day.
Democracy? Who elected the European Commissioners?
As for countries being silly, I’d probably feel the same if I came from Wales…
I wouldn’t say that all Lib-Dems are pointless Beardies and would remind you all that the last Ginger haired alcoholic Prime Minister we had didn’t do too badly…
“Bad idea” etc are obviously opinions. Here are some more.
NATO - No. Nato works, has been shown to work over many years and I see no reason why it shouldn’t continue to work.
I think the Euro defence force is a staggeringly bad idea primarily because it seems to be an attempt to subvert NATO - ie take the Americans out. I simply don’t believe that the armed forces of the various European countries represent a credible fighting force, which NATO certianly does.
Also, the history of recent British military involvement has been one of extra-NATO and (arguably) extra-UN engagement. Why do we need to join another body?
There are also other neutral countries in the EU as well as Ireland - I don’t know how they feel, but they may well feel the same as you.
As to synchronising tax regimes: no. No. no. One of the definitions of a sovereign state is control over one’s economy, and this would be giving away (another) cornerstone. I also think that Europe has a high-tax tradition and I wouldn’t want the UK tied into this.