A different Obama debate. Black or Biracial?

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=John Mace]
We’ve been over this a number of times. In the US, if you look Black or mixed you end up being labeled as Black most of the time. It’s really not more complicated than that. Some of this traces to the “one drop rule” that was encoded into law not that long ago, but I think that as long as the country is majority White, you are going to be classified as “other” if you don’t look White. I’m sure Obama looks different to his Kenyan relatives, and they probably see him as mixed, but then they’re used to seeing mostly Black Africans in their daily lives.
[/quote]
What he said.

I’m biracial (multiracial actually - African American/Catholic mother, Dutch and Venezuelan/Jewish [white] father). I’m definitely a few shades fairer than Obama. My sisters are even fairer than I and, to quote my grandmother on my mother’s side, “[Ono], you either have too much cream in your coffee or too much coffee in your cream, I don’t know which.” The bottom line is although I don’t have what the lazy consider classic black features, I certainly can’t pass for white, so I’m considered black.

With the advent of Swirl, My Shoes, Fusion, Mixed Folks, etc… people of mixed heritage now have outlets and organizations available to help them deal with the ignorance exhibited by both blacks and whites on this issue. I’m also pleased that an increasing number of forms’ demographics sections include a multiethnic option.

I prefer to be considered biracial, multiracial, or multiethnic, but am fine with being considered black as I don’t expect the average person I meet to be able to see beyond their preconceived notions on race.

Being biracial has contributed to Obama becoming who he is today, possibly to a lesser extent than for me, since although we were both children in the '60s (Obama and I are one year apart in age), he was raised in Indonesia and Hawaii, I was raised in the midwest to parents who were married before Loving.

I believe Obama is okay with being considered black, however, like me, I suspect it bothers him when folks attempt to dismiss, ignore, or diminish an important part of what makes him him, as though it doesn’t exist.

22

[QUOTE=John Mace]
I’m sure Obama looks different to his Kenyan relatives, and they probably see him as mixed, but then they’re used to seeing mostly Black Africans in their daily lives.
[/QUOTE]
Just for interests sake: there is a picture on Wikipedia of a young Barack Obama Jr. and his Kenyan father.

23

[QUOTE=Apollyon]
Just for interests sake: there is a picture on Wikipedia of a young Barack Obama Jr. and his Kenyan father.
[/QUOTE]
The picture that I find most telling is this one of Barack and his mother, which was on the cover of Time Magazine. It’s hard to look at that picture and not glimpse the racial contradictions that, as Marley23 mentioned, are a big part of Dreams from my Father.

I personally don’t think of Obama as black. I think of him as someone with an African father and a white American mother, a unique combination with unique challenges, that prepared him for some of the challenges he will face leading a divided America.

24

[QUOTE=Apollyon]
Just for interests sake: there is a picture on Wikipedia of a young Barack Obama Jr. and his Kenyan father.
[/QUOTE]

WAAAAAAALT!! :smiley:

25

[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia]
I prefer to be considered biracial, multiracial, or multiethnic, but am fine with being considered black as I don’t expect the average person I meet to be able to see beyond their preconceived notions on race.
[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that if we can’t expect (and encourage) the average person to challenge and change their preconceived notions on race then little change is likely.

When I’ve been in the States most people would have simply assumed I was a white American (at least until I opened my mouth). :slight_smile: So seriously, I can’t know what it is like to be seen as black in the US; how this shapes people’s responses and attitudes, and what sort of life experience that leads to.

But flipping it around for a moment: I’m a 3rd-5th generation NZer (depending on the branch of family tree) of predominantly Scottish descent, and I work with people who would be considered white in the US who are originally from Russia, Croatia, Germany, England, Sweden, Argentina, and many other places. To assume that their culture / ethnicity / life experience is in some way analogous to my own simply because we share light skin tones is patently absurd.

26

[QUOTE=SpoilerVirgin]
The picture that I find most telling is this one of Barack and his mother, which was on the cover of Time Magazine. It’s hard to look at that picture and not glimpse the racial contradictions that, as Marley23 mentioned, are a big part of Dreams from my Father.
[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s hard to look at that picture, all right.

27

Google “one drop”. (first hit)

“One drop” refers to a legal standard; the point is not so much the legality, but the social definitions that could create such a law, and only for one … “race”? of people.

Now google “brown paper bag” (first hit).

Obama’s Black; Woods is Black. BUT they are not Black by decree; they are black because about 40 years ago people of African descent challenged and denied external definitions and classification, and declared that the “one drop” opened a group to embrace people, rather than be used to exclude them.

No Octoroons or Quintoons or ‘Colored’. No choosing your mate in the hope your child or grandchild might pass.

28

I’m one of those African-Americans whose parents are both black but is always assumed to be “biracial”. Now I admit up front, justified or not, that I’ve accumulated some baggage with the whole label game. I’ve tried to figure out exactly why it bothers me when people express assumptions about my heritage or voice surprise when I reveal that both of my parents are black, and I although I have some ideas, it’s hard for me to describe my silly angst in words.

But I notice that I have the same reaction when people try to classify Obama as biracial as opposed to black. I guess a part of me is thinking, what does it matter if he considers himself black? Is there something wrong with being black? What does it really mean to be biracial anyway, when 1) race is a social construct, not biological, 2) African-Americans have been called black for many generations now without regard to white parentage, and 3) having parents of two different races doesn’t necessarily make your life experiences different than those who don’t.

And then I wonder if the question really boils down to making people feel like he’s not really one of them, he’s different, he’s half white, not unlike a white guy at all, so it’s okay to trust him, because he’s not really one of * them*. And then I feel like perhaps I’m overreacting and overthinking things, and then again perhaps not.

Racial identity politics is a complicated subject. Obama calls himself black because that’s probably how he sees himself, but also because he’s sees “black” as the right answer to a politically-loaded question. I’m not biracial, but I could see myself not calling myself that because of the self- perception that I’m trying to distance myself from the stigmatized minority that makes up my other half. Would not be surprised at all if that’s why Obama is black.

29

[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew]
Well, it’s hard to look at that picture, all right.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does seem to be busted. There are a number of photos of Obama and various members of his family at KansasPrairie, including one with his mother (though different from the broken one **SpoilerVirgin **linked).

30

[QUOTE=Liberal]
I don’t know how to say this delicately, Samp, but he looks black. His complexion is dark. His hair is kinky. His eyes are dark brown, almost black. He just has certain features that many people are used to identifying with African-Americans. It’s the same reason that Tiger Woods is perceived as black. Most people probably haven’t even seen a picture of Obama’s mother or grandparents. They just go by what’s in front of their eyes.
[/QUOTE]

I think you’ve hit on what nobody really is willing to talk about. It isn’t that people think of Tiger Woods or Obama as black, even though they are just as much another race as they are black. I think the underlying issue is that the mainstream culture, or whatever you want to call the complex of ideas, opinions, and attitudes that mean “ordinary”, or “neutral”, or “un-qualified, un-hyphenated, American” still thinks of people as being either white, or “something else”. Obama isn’t white, so the tendency is to classify his heritage as something else. I don’t mean to defend this logic; at the same time, neither do I mean to criticize or condemn anyone for saying or believing that. It’s something which was ingrained into the culture over hundreds of years of oppression and slavery. Although statutory oppression and slavery are historical memories now, I think the ‘white/something else’ perception still does exist, unfortunately.

31

Why is this even a relevant discussion. He is a man and running for president. Is there some point that being black or half black is a bad thing. Are you just trying to remind people he is black. ? Are you afraid it will drop in importance if it is not constantly prodded. ?Do I detect a whiff of racism here?

32

gonzomax, I thought we were just having a friendly discussion about concepts of race, and racial self-identity. No-one so far has suggested “being black or half black is a bad thing”. If you are detecting a whiff of something then it would seem your detector is cranked up to a much higher setting than mine.

33

Jennifer Beals is an example of somebody who’s half-black but is generally considered to be white.

34

[QUOTE=you with the face]
I’m one of those African-Americans whose parents are both black but is always assumed to be “biracial”…
[/QUOTE]
Although it may very well be true that if you did a genetic analysis of yourself that you might find that 50% or of your genetic heritage has non-African roots. Despite the fact that both of your parents are Black. Black as a sociological grouping, if you say they are, then they are; of pure African heritage - highly unlikely. More than 30% of American Black males have a European Y-chromosome haplotype. Some Black American populations have 22.5% European genetic ancestry on average overall. Obama may very well have more African genetic heritage than many others who call themselves Black in America.

Identity in America is indeed a strange thing requiring an overlap of what you are willing to identify yourself and what others will readily call you. What you look like and how you behave based on your family of origin, and how you choose to package yourself. Was it you who early on, in one of those “Is he Black enough?” threads said something like: “he goes to a Black church and he married a Black woman - he’s Black.”?

He calls himself that and others accept him as that, then that is what he is. But his story is not that he is Black, but instead is a variant of the hodgepodge stew success story that is the American archetype, our core mythology, and we all want to identify with that.

35

[QUOTE=gonzomax]
Why is this even a relevant discussion. He is a man and running for president. Is there some point that being black or half black is a bad thing. Are you just trying to remind people he is black. ? Are you afraid it will drop in importance if it is not constantly prodded. ?Do I detect a whiff of racism here?
[/QUOTE]

Let me guess…this is aimed at me, no? :rolleyes:

Why is it a relevant discussion? Well, CNN thought it was worthy of discussion (you DID read the article I cited in the OP, right?), and I figured I’d ask folk here what they thought. You know, the whole ‘debate’ thingy?

Why Obama? Because he was discussed in the article I cited (which I’m sure you read), and also because he IS running for president, so is in the publics eye.

Do (I) want to remind people he is black? Um…do you think they have forgotten?

Is being half-black a bad thing? Are you asking for my opinion on the matter or making a statement here?

Am I afraid it will drop in importance? I don’t even know what that means to be honest. What will drop in importance? The fact that Obama is black?

Do you detect a whiff of racism here? Gods know…do you? I detect a whiff of bullshit myself…

-XT

36

[QUOTE=DSeid]
Some Black American populations have 22.5% European genetic ancestry on average overall.
[/QUOTE]
I remember that being discussed by an Anthro professor (back in the '80s) that (on average) black Americans were more genetically similar to white Americans than they were to Africans. (West coast? – can’t quite recall now).

37

More recently I have seen a program about how unimportant “race” is when determining genetic similarities.

I wonder if Obama would be the first multi-racial President. Is it possible that some of our other Presidents were mixtures?

38

I’m just going to point out that, as far as people around me are concerned, half Irish and half Jewish is, apparently all Jewish. (Irony: except for hair and skin color, I look just like the Irish side. Down to the oversized, repeatedly broken nose. (I insist the repeatedly broken bit is genetic. We’ve all done it. Except Liam, but he’s young.)

I believe at least one President has had American Indian blood. Cherokee? But I can’t recall whom it was.

39

For general purposes you are what you appear to be. How can I be sensitive to your multi-racial heritage without knowing about it? I try my best to make assessments about people by their actions not their apparent heritage.

40

[QUOTE=DSeid]
Although it may very well be true that if you did a genetic analysis of yourself that you might find that 50% or of your genetic heritage has non-African roots. Despite the fact that both of your parents are Black.
[/quote]

Well, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if I actually had more Euro genes than African, from sources that I don’t know about officially. But being black, in my mind, has never been in conflict with my non-African heritage, so all of that is a nonissue to me. There is no “despite” about it.

When I say my parents are black, do you really think it’s possible that I’m saying my parents are 100% sub-saharan African, even after I acknowledged being pegged as biracial all the time? That’s like thinking of zebras instead of horses at the sound of hooves. My dad is black the same way that Harold Ford is black and my mom is black the same way that Eleanor Norton Holmes is black.

I may have said something like that to challenge the ridiculous notion that black people don’t view Obama as “black enough”. I still have yet to see a real live black person who doesn’t think Obama is truly black.

His story is not separate from the black experience, though. He has dealt with racism because of his African heritage, he has had to carry the psychological strain that being the “other” can cause, and after years of struggling with identity, he has made a home in the black community. Just because he hasn’t estranged himself from white people and embraces his white relatives, doesn’t change those essential facts. And just because the story is a good one that resonates with all Americans, doesn’t mean its not ultimately a story about a black man. Afterall, who would argue that Frederick Douglas’ story or Booker T. Washington’s story weren’t about black men. Or W. E. Dubois or Malcolm X for that matter. Obama’s white ties don’t really make him exceptional.

Kinda as a hijack: In past discussions on race, it’s seems to be the common view on this board that there is no such thing as a white culture. If we accept that idea (I’m not sure I do), doesn’t this weaken the idea that there is true biracial construct based on cultural affiliation?