A friend of mine was telling me about being in a part of town that is made up primarily of black families, and how when mention of Obama was made (prior to his winning, but not very long ago), there was a kind of collective shrug. When he asked why there wasn’t more excitement, the response was that Obama “isn’t really a brother”.
Now, I know that the vast majority of blacks in this country don’t seem to have that opinion, but I’d be interested in knowing more from those who do. It seems to be that because Obama is not an actual descendent of slaves, his blackness doesn’t count somehow? (Frankly, I’ve long believed that that fact has made a difference for whites assessing him, not so much blacks.) It can’t be because of his being half-white and growing up surrounded by whites and other ethnicities, because a whole lot of African Americans descended from slaves fall into that category.
It seems to me, a white woman, that the experience of being black in America is very much tied to the actual color of one’s skin, whether one is descended from slaves or not, the reality that modern black people experience is undifferentiated by upbringing, background, etc. ( At least on a superficial level, obviously everything comes into play when people get to know each other better.) I’m sure Obama has been ignored by cab drivers late at night, checked out by the police because he was Driving While Black, etc.
So can any Doper enlighten as to the thinking underlying this (admittedly minority) opinion of the quality or quantity of Obama’s blackness and how it affects his qualifications as a real “brother”?
I have no personal experience one way or the other, but I’d venture to guess that–even if most black people do have some sort of shared burden simply by being a black person in America–Hawaii is unlikely to be like that. Between Polynesians and Japanese, I’m not sure that even white people are a majority there, let alone likely in any sense to view themselves as the dominant peoples.
If there’s a place in the US that’s colorblind (towards black people), I’d imagine that Hawaii is it. They’re more worried about the other colors that have real numbers in presence.
I started a thread a few months ago which ended up being a land mine for me, asking why is Obama considered black (“first black presidential candidate from a major party”) even though half his ancestors were white. I got a lot of responses along the lines of “he’s black because he says he’s black,” to oversimplify. I am a white male and make no pretense that I truly understand how black people feel on this or what the American experience is for a black person, and will await posts with interest.
I can’t answer for those people your friend knows, but if I were to guess, I’d think it would be those two things*.
Obama didn’t grow up around the black culture that lots of blacks identify with, because he wasn’t raised around black Americans. There might be a whole lot of blacks who weren’t raised in black neighborhoods, but maybe the people who inspired this thread would consider them outsiders too. Of course that doesn’t mean that they (and Obama) aren’t black, but they will probably have more in common with the people they grew up around.
Obama made an effort to plug himself into that culture, with his choice of church, choice of job etc.
It’s not that his his blackness didn’t count because his father was from Kenya, but if his black relatives had been around, he’d be learning Kenyan culture, not AA culture.
*not really the half white part, but being raised by whites with little input from blacks, part.
I have not met a single black person that thinks he is not black enough. And I pride myself on entrenching myself in some of the realest, blackest, hardest ghettoes all over the nation. Literally.
Anyone that says he isn’t black enough is making that up. Period.
Anecdote: I knew a half-white, half-Japanese young woman whose two young sons had black fathers. She was living in the outskirts of Boston but had grown up in Hawaii. She eventually moved back to Hawaii because she got sick of feeling like an outsider all the time and wanted to be back where she and her kids would look like everyone else. It wouldn’t be a paradise of equality but it would be a helluva lot more comfortable for them there, she said.
Before expressing my opinion here I’ll disclose that I’m biracial but, whereas Obama’s mother was white and father African, my mother’s African-American and my father a mish-mosh of Dutch, English and Venezuelan, AKA white.
Although I’ve heard whites say some blacks say Obama is not black enough, funnily enough, I’ve never heard this sentiment directly from black people. In fact, the only time I’ve heard this topic broached is from whites. Further, I don’t believe the topic of Obama’s blackness is one that would occur as a debate issue or concern to the average black person. For example, I have a very fair complexion for a black person and, not only am I a number of shades fairer than Obama, my features are just ambiguous enough to give one pause at first glance. However, I am rarely considered anything other than black, and never considered anything other than black by black people.
It doesn’t factor with blacks that Obama is not descended from slaves, although I do know this distinction is important to some whites for reasons not clear to me.
My opinion is this is simply a case of transference or projection. Whites see a dichotomy between African Americans and multi- or bi-racial Americans who look black, which confuses them and enhances their curiosity and ultrasensitivity about what they feel must be equally confusing within targeted ethnic cohorts. Trust me. Its not.
It’s kinda tricky out here about color-blindness toward blacks.
Most races tend to get along, but there’s not too many blacks out here (aside from the military). Yet, the Asian population generally doesn’t view blacks as favorably. I knew quite a few Filipinos who refused to vote for Obama, saying outright “because he’s black”. Others had very un-PC comments when comparing Katrina refugees to Thai tsunami refugees.
Some of my Korean friends (especially older ones) view blacks with distrust. One nearly had an ulcer when she found out one of her nieces were hanging out with a black man. She was afraid he’d steal stuff around the house (although he did dress like a gangsta).
If anything, the racism American whites feel toward American blacks pales in comparison to other racism out there.
On the other hand, it is not uncommon for Asians (especially Filipino and Vietnamese) to look and act black (loose clothes, thumping stereos, bling, talking in ebonics). Could that loosely be considered racism, as those are not always positive views of blacks?
Even granting for the sake of argument that the weird statement “he’s not black enough” has both meaning and significance, perhaps the counterpoint is that a little bit of black is better than none. I mean, seriously, in this election, the only element blacker than Obama was Sarah Palin’s heart.
You and **Onomatopoeia **make a good point. Early on, the media kept asking questions about whether he was black enough for blacks, but I’ve never heard a black person answer that question with a “no”.
The phrase “not black enough” has much more to do with personality, emotions, personal racial identity, than with one’s skin color. On many levels being “black” is a certain attitude and perspective, and is an emotional identity. A person can be the darkest hue and still be accused of not being black enough. But a light-complexioned or mixed race black undeniably attracts more scrutiny in that regard. At other times not being black enough is blamed on other things, like speaking grammatically correct english, or dressing conservatively, or for liking the opera, etc.
In one regard if someone claims Obama is not black enough it’s a way of saying there is no feeling of connection between person(s) making the claim towards Obama. The black culture really has many subcultures. And some of those subcultures define themselves as significantly “black,” i.e. identifying strongly with many of the usual black stereotypes, and making “blackness” their primary focus. They see the “black” perspective as the primary or only perspective that is valid, (while disregarding and dismissing the white perspective). Many blacks look to political leaders to have those same attitudes, or else they can’t fully embrace those leaders. One way of being black enough is to not show any signs of genuinely caring about or liking white people. On that one Obama clearly fails. Of course MLK also failed on that one, (if that helps to give a good perspective?).
So… there are blacks who openly wept and cheered because we’ve made such a magnificent step in our history. And then there are blacks who voted for Obama on principle, because of race, but who look at him and don’t see anyone with whom they can directly relate emotionally. I expect many blacks to be eventually disappointed and critical of him when he proves to be the POTUS of all Americans, and not president of the black ones.
And finally, many of us have spent our entire lives being described as not being black enough, even many who grew up right in the thick of the black culture. It’s an unfounded but common accusation, made by some blacks towards other blacks, and it’s been around since the days of slavery. I’m sure Obama has heard his share of it all his life, and has already come to terms with it. But I do think those types of accusations occur less frequently than they used to. Progress, of a sort.
I also disagree that there aren’t any blacks who feel that Obama isn’t black enough. Some do, and some don’t. And some probably feel ambiguous about it, i.e. feeling both sides of it strongly. I guess it probably depends on where you live?
Hmm. People have been telling me that my entire life, but I have not experienced it. I don’t doubt there is racism all over the world, but it has not been my experience that it ‘pales in comparison’ to racism that blacks get from whites in the U.S.
Of all the Africans (from all sorts of countries in Africa), Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, and so on, that I have met, I have overwhelmingly felt accepted.
A good friend of mine is a man that drives me to work and back in a cab every day, and has been doing so for years. He told me that in his country, there was a system set up that taught him he was was black enough to be inferior to whites, but un-black enough to be superior to ‘true blacks’. He said that when he left his country and traveled the world, he realized this was a nasty trick that certain racist systems use to preserve their racist governments.
I think it is also a nasty trick to convince blacks that they are despised the world over. What great beauty to see thousands of German people on their feet in celebration of someone to whom they themselves consider the first ‘black’ president of the U.S. Likewise for Japan, and many other countries that some blacks were taught despised them.
And not to sound like a broken record, but I think you can find some people that will swear the sky is green. But that doesn’t make it a real sentiment found widespread enough through a culture to actually count. I think that a black that claims they don’t find Obama black enough because they can’t “directly relate to him emotionally” are simply full of it.
The year Obama was born, it would’ve been illegal in at least 16 states for his parents to get married. I think that makes him black enough for historic standards.
This isn’t exactly what he meant. It is true that lots of people in lots of countries have some weird ideas about black people, especially if no black people actually live there. But the main point isn’t that everyone hates the blacks, it’s that racism of a parochial type is an epidemic around the world.
Ask someone from China what the Japanese are like. Ask a Japanese what Koreans or Chinese are like. Ask a Dane what they think of Norwegians. Ask a francophone Belgian what they think of dutch speaking Belgians. Ask a Hutu what they think of Tutsis. Ask a Ukranian what they think of Russians. Ask a Czech what they think of Slovaks. Ask a Spaniard what they think of Basques. And so on and so on. It is extremely common for people around the world to have the strangest racist ideas about people of other ethnic groups, and for those ideas to be completely impervious to change.
While I’ve never encountered anyone saying it myself, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. In some ways, racism has infected black culture with a perverse sort of internal racism that plays out sub-culturally. Gigi mentioned it, I believe in jest but was in fact not far off from the truth. How we black people treat each other is largely a response to how much we perceive that our upbringing was similar. In a typical day to say setting, lets say a barbershop initially Obama might be perceived as different, but then he might not, his speaking style is familiar to anyone that’s been in church (which would be true of approximately 95% of black people).
I think this is spot on. Many white people are very ignorant about the hodgepodge that are African-Americans, and often make assumptions based on that ignorance. Attempts to distinguish mixed people from (other) blacks reflects this ignorance, as it seems to be based on the erroneous belief that blacks aren’t mixed themselves.
There is very little about Obama that should make anyone think “not black enough”. He’s not a stereotypical acting black guy, to be sure. But most black people aren’t stereotypical acting. I do think the pervasive of this meme is a product of white projection. They see Obama as being like themselves and therefore, have a hard time accepting that black people can feel the same way.
I read an interesting article about Obama’s ancestry. It pointed out that his Father is descended from African Arabs, and that they were not the Black kin that people think of as Africans, but the slavers themselves. That his Mother was descended from slave holders. Is that true of Luo? Do they have a history as slavers? It would be interesting if the first black President had more roots with slavers than with slaves.
This is not to say any of that should be held against him, only that it’s quite interesting in a, “Things that make ya go hmm.”, way.
Yes there were black commenters who said that Obama was insufficiently authentic. Stanley Crouch said that Obama was not "one of us.” A Salon artcle claimed he’s not black at all: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/01/22/obama/
