A European’s anti-war and anti-anti-war feelings/ramblings (NOT A DEBATE)

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m writing this at home after a good few whiskies and a bottle of wine and will post it in the morning when I bring the laptop to work so forgive my drunken ramblings :slight_smile:

This is NOT a debate. Please join the many GD threads or start your own if you want one. The name of this forum is In My Humble Opinion and this is mine. While I disagree with the war I also disagree with a lot of the antiwar crap I hear getting tossed around (mostly in real life BTW).

I disagree strongly with this war. The reasons put forward for war now are IMNSHO questionable to use a huge understatement and IMO very likely illegal. That said I would like to say the following.

I have no problem with the US/UK/Australian etc. armed forces. I firmly believe/know that the vast majority of these men and women are good, honourable and well trained people doing their very best to carry out their orders in a manner that they, their families and their counties can be proud off. These people don’t make the decisions they just put their lives on the line to carry them out, something that I could not do but respect greatly.

I don’t have a problem with the American people although I strongly disagree with a lot of US political thinking. I spent one month in the States (Vermont) and worked closely with a lot of Americans during my four years with IBM and I was completely blown away by the generosity and basic decentness of almost everyone I met, even management, a first for me :). Some of the anti-US shite I’ve seen thrown around discusts me. I feel the same about the anti-French crap I’ve seen on this board. Slagging people off is grand IMO and the French and Americans are a good targets AFAIC BUT jokes are jokes and bullshit is bullshit. Some of you on both sides should be ashamed of yourselves IMO.

I detest the current US administration(minus Powell). Bush, Rumsfelt, Ashcroft etc. are a bunch of yahoos that just make my skin crawl. Their arrogance and fuck you attitude is a barrier that I just can’t break through. I would much rather be disagreeing with the politics and decisions of people like Bush Snr., Powell or Clinton (I would say Gore but I can’t get past my dislike for his wife to add him to the list. Anthrax has a good song about it :wink: ) US Admin. home policies mean almost nothing to me apart from a reason to talk shit over a beer as I don’t have any intention of living in the States or anywhere else. I love living where I live.

I have a lot of respect for Blair and think that he is doing this for what he thinks are the right reasons, I just don’t agree with him. I am however very impressed with how he has put himself in the firing line to put his case forward in live debate with press/public. Something that I would love to see Bush trying. I would be very disappointed indeed if this led to his fall (very unlikely but who knows what’s down the road)

Now that this war is started and nothing can be done to stop it I do hope that Saddam, his vile offspring and regime are removed with extreme prejudice. This regime is a blot on the world and the Iraqi people would have to be very unlucky indeed to end up with something half as bad. Hopefully when this is over they can live in a country that allows them to to live good long and fruitful lives. I’m quite pessimistic about this however :frowning:

I’ve banged on long enough. I would like to hear the thoughts of other people on how they fell at the moment as I do believe that a lot of pro-war US people have the impression that all anti-war people ie. the majority of Europeans AFAICS are Anti-American and Anti-troops etc.

A drunken Irishman, who disagrees with a huge amount of Irish politics as well BTW.

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Although I may not agree with people on many issues, I really enjoy the various points of view, especially from other countries. I do not engage in debate primarily because of time constraints.

Long live craik. Cheers!

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Your ideas are interesting to me yojimbo, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

It is somewhat odd that quite a few anti war folks, including myself, seem to have an increased respect for Blair. It’s hard to see how he could done better given the position he’s adopted.

Getting rid of Saddam is a good thing without question, but I fear the long term effects of undertaking such an action in the way we have.

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This is largely how I feel - and indeed most people I know, with varying degrees of intensity. Nicely captured.

5

As an American who likes to travel abroad as much as I can and still afford to eat, I am frequently embarrassed to admit where I come from. The war with Iraq is the type of thing that causes my embarrassment. The whole war is unjustified as best as I can see. yojimbo I am glad to hear you say that you understand that it’s not the people in the troops, and not necessairily the everyday joe at home that has decided the war with Iraq was a good idea. Sigh. Some days I am really sad for the world…

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I am an American and am very proud of it. The US is the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the world. We’re going to be hated no matter how we handle things. But frankly, it doesn’t matter.

Saddam’s had 10+ years to puts his ducks in a row. So far I’m not satisfied he would/will be cooperative without military force.

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There will always be Anti-Americanism, but for the vast majority of people around the world the US is not always the scapegoat (try being British), and often gets criticised when the criticism is well deserved.

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Maybe if we weren’t involved in EVERYTHING then we wouldn’t be blamed for anything.

And yojimbo, I liked the rant.