A few notes on vaccination

Wrote this for facebook, realized it was not a good idea and decided here was a better place for it.

Vaccinations need a better PR department. Apparently “You don’t have to get Polio any more” isn’t good enough.

Yeesh. The amount of sheer misinformation going around just among everyday people regarding vaccines is terrible. I got into a discussion with someone the other day who I generally hold in fairly high esteem who assured me that flu vaccines cause the flu (they don’t[1]), that this is because the vaccine contains the live virus (they don’t[1]); that vaccines intentionally weaken the immune system in order to work (they don’t); that vaccines contain mercury that makes you sick (not since the early 2000s, with few rare exceptions[2] - not that it matters as thimerosal was never shown to cause any harm in the concentrations found in most vaccines); and that a German study[3] showed that vaccinated children get sick more often than unvaccinated children. This one deserves its own paragraph.

I’m not sure if this [3] was what the person in question was talking about, but it’s worth a look anyways. First of all, it’s worth noting that when actual scientists took a look at it, the results were quite different[4], showing no actual difference. However, the number of unvaccinated children in that study was restricted to those who could actually be monitored - leaving the sample rather low. However, it had three distinct advantages over the vaccineinjury.info study:

First of all, in the Ärzteblatt survey, there was an actual control group. You know, normally when observing something like that you have a control group to make sure that your study isn’t flawed in and of itself? But the VI survey didn’t have that. It only asked for those who did not vaccinate. This is really basic stuff, guys.

Secondly, the sample from Ärzteblatt was actually representative. The VI survey was entirely self-selected. You had to go to the website and fill out the form. This is really bad form, as it leaves tons of room open for a severe case of self-selection bias. Those most likely to respond were parents with an axe to grind - people who would visit a site like vaccineinjury.info and not immediately say, “wow, this is complete crap”. People who don’t trust conventional medicine. I wonder if that assumption plays out?

Lastly, Of those who responded to the VI survey, over 95% stated that they did not use conventional medicine. With those kind of numbers, how many diagnoses do you think slipped by? How many children with only mild symptoms were missed? When you compare the rate of infection of diseases that often are easy to miss in their mild forms when checked by medical professionals and when checked by homeopathic quacks, then there’s a serious bias there that you have to account for. Which the study did not.

Honestly, I don’t know why I’m bothering, because Orac, a professional medical scientist and quack blogger tears this whole study a new one far better than I could [5]. But seriously… This shit has got to stop. Vaccines are quite possibly the single most indisputably beneficial invention in humanity’s history. They are certainly one of the greatest achievements in modern medicine. And the sheer amount of ignorance surrounding them is just… Ugh. What we need is another major Polio outbreak to get people to understand that this shit has gone too far, and that people like Andreas Bachmair need to shut their stupid, undereducated, scientifically illiterate faces before they hurt even more people. I hold all the respect in the world for the person in question (the person who I heard this stuff from, not Bachmair - she needs to go die of polio), but I’d rather not spend a lot of time researching this stuff. And if I have to then you’re gonna hear me rant about it on facebook.
1: Fact and Fiction About the Flu

2: Thimerosal and Vaccines | FDA

3: http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vaccinations-in-general/health-unvaccinated-children/survey-results-illnesses.html

4: Deutsches Ärzteblatt: Archiv "Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents" (18.02.2011)

5: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/31/an-anti-vaccine-administered-survey-back/

Read the flu vaccine thread and weep. I’m ashamed of some of the posts in there.

Truth.

I think maybe we need to switch tactics. Our grandparents and parents were easy to convince with the, “hey, your kid doesn’t need to get measles!” strategy, because many of them *had *measles. They know how miserable they were. Their parents know how terrified they were, watching their kids be miserable and hoping they didn’t die. My generation doesn’t get it, because we didn’t get it. The further in time we’re removed from “routine childhood illness” actually being routine, the fewer people we’re going to convince that these things were really unpleasant, because they didn’t experience them first hand.

I’m picturing large billboards, with a rashy miserable kid lying lethargically in the arms of a tired mother calling her boss to explain why she really can’t be at work for the 6th day in a row. A sleepless father sitting next to a feverish child lying in bed with a thermometer reading 104.

Forget the death part - it’s a losing tactic, because denial prevents people from thinking death will happen to them or their children (and also because while death happens from vaccine preventable illnesses, it’s still pretty rare in the US, so it’s an easy tactic to dispute.) Focus on the inconvenience, the suffering of babies, the expense of missed work, the worry and anxiety of sitting the night through with sick kids.

Link me?

I don’t think rhetorically wishing polio on people’s children (just to prove they are idiots) is going to help improve vaccination’s “PR”.

I read an interestingblog postrecently about how the pro-vaccine movement can learn a few things from other awareness campaigns. I changed my social media avatars as a result, but none of my friends or family have followed suit, whereas my whole Facebook wall was lit up with equality logos months ago for the gay rights issue. I think there’s something to the idea, but I’m not sure how to get it off the ground.

How is this for a possible commercial: The announcer says “Are vaccinations really necessary? Let’s ask those who know the truth!” Then the camera silently and slowly pans over a series of gravestones. The panning slowly speeds up until it is just a blur of gravestones passing by.
Fade to black.

Flu shot thread.

I was just thinking about this last night. It’s astounding how many people think the flu shot causes the flu- I see it on the internet but also among many of the people I know IRL. My best friend has a daycare in her home and she just posted on FB that the last time she got the flu shot, she not only got the flu, but she was sick all winter, so no, she’s not getting it again, and no one in her family will, either. When I think of all the children they come in contact with, and all of the people that come in contact with all of the children, etc and so on, it is truly mind-boggling how many people could suffer from the flu just because she is misinformed. But I know from experience that telling these people the facts doesn’t convince them so I don’t even try.

Why don’t these same people think that getting a tetanus shot causes tetanus, or the mumps/measles/rubella shot causes those?

Because those cause autism. Pay attention, Alice!

Oh yeah, I forgot! Fortunately, of the people I know with kids with autism, none of them think vaccines caused it.

I think a lot of people mistakenly think the flu is just a really bad cold. It doesn’t matter how much you insist this isn’t the case; these assholes somehow seem to think that if they ever get the flu, they’ll be able to shrug it off after a couple of days.

Yes, and also the flu vaccine takes up to two weeks before your body has developed an immunity from it. So some people will indeed come down with the flu - the real flu - after a flu shot, especially if they didn’t get their shot until after late September/early October. Imagine that, they got the flu during flu season while they weren’t fully vaccinated. Amazing. :rolleyes:

You should be, you said some obnoxious things.

I got sick from a Hep B shot. Didn’t get Hep B but I was sick for three days and declined to continue the series.
I’ve had lots and lots of vaccinations, but only that one bad reaction.

We need a vaccine against the Andrew Wakefields of the world.

I cannot think of many other cases where (1) the info was complete bullshit and (2) became a major if not majority viewpoint and (3) persisted strongly even after thorough exposure of the bad science behind the claim and a raft of contrary studies. I think some very large percentage of the autism community is still convinced MMR is a cause or trigger.

I think no matter what the promotion, the anti-vax crowd is going to call it propaganda, because everyone knows Big Pharm is out to sicken our children so they need MORE meds!

This is why I’ve dropped almost all my autism-related FB groups and forums.

The other thing is, in a not-insignificant number of people (myself included), a flu shot can lead to headache, muscle soreness, and a low fever. People who don’t know better may well be calling this small reaction “the flu” and freaking out over it.

What’s the science on this reaction?

That’s a good question, and I’d have to do a little research if you want a decent answer. I assume it’s the immune system kicking in and causing some inflammation, but that’s just a guess.

Here’s what the CDC has to say about it (bolding mine):

[QUOTE=CDC]
The flu shot can cause mild side effects that are sometimes mistaken for flu. For example, people sometimes experience a sore arm where the shot was given. The soreness is often caused by a person’s immune system making protective antibodies in response to being vaccinated. These antibodies are what allow the body to fight against flu. The needle stick may also cause some soreness at the injection site. Rarely, people who get the flu shot have fever, muscle pain, and feelings of discomfort or weakness. If experienced at all, these effects usually last 1-2 days after vaccination and are much less severe than actual flu illness.
[/QUOTE]

I get those symptoms after every flu shot, without fail. The Hep B shots did the same. My pertussis booster, though, was fine. Not sure what’s going on with my body to cause it, but I’m happy to accept a couple of days of headache and low fever if it protects me against much worse things.