A large rock on the end of a very long carbon nanotube is spun rapidly, what happens

Assume it is thousands of years in the future and technology is much better. You build a rope made of carbon nanotubes (or something stronger if possible) and attach a heavy stone, maybe 500 pounds to the end. The nanotubes is extremely long 4000 miles in length. The tensile strength is astronomical. You put the device in space and start rotating it around an axis. Assume you have an engine that is far stronger than anything we could conceive of today producing trillions of foot pounds of torque.

If the rope was 4000 miles long, then rotating it at 450 rpm would cause the stone to move at the speed of light. What would happen if you create a rope with extremely strong tensile strength and an engine with extremely high torque (again, this is thousands of years in the future and you can create much better items than we have now) and try to spin it at the speed of light?

Does the mass of the rock become so heavy that the engine can’t go any faster, or the rope tensile strength gives out when you start to hit around 99%?

Either or both or your engine burns out. It will fail. Exactly when is not predictable because you’re postulating magic, but sooner or later something will fail.

It would fail because the rope would break or the engine would burn out due to the increased mass of the rock I am assuming?

The rope would break before the rock reached c. The centrifugal force needed would approach infinity as the speed approached c (this is true despite the fact that the mass of the rock doesn’t change). We don’t know what the ultimate tensile strength of your rope is, but I’m sure it’s finite.

What’s the other end of your rope tied to?

You have a magic rope and a magic engine. How are we supposed to science that?

God damn it. I am a college educated person trained in a STEM field who works at a respected scientific company. When I come here and ask fourth grade science questions I expect to be treated with respect.

God’s nipple tassel.

Ignoring relativity for the moment:
F=mrω^2
ω = 450 rpm = 47.1 radians/sec
r = 4000 miles = 6.4e6 m
m = 500 lb = 227 kg
F = 3.2e12 N

Specific strength (optimistic) of carbon fiber is 4.8e7 N-m/kg. So, we need 6667 kg/m worth of cable just to carry the end weight, or 4.3e11 kg for the whole thing. Clearly, the cable isn’t strong enough to carry its own mass–by many orders of magnitude.

No material, no matter how theoretical, is close to strong enough for this. So yeah–you need magic, and it’s hard to build useful hypotheticals around magic.

How do you apply torque with a rope?

(I heard this question posed with very long scissors)

Speeds do not add together the same at near-C speeds. Cecil covered this here.

I’m guessing that if you measure the speed at various points along the cable, out along the cable, your true speed and projected (according to geometry) will start to diverge as you move out from the center.

What that looks like, what shape the cable takes, - how reality resolves the two, I have no idea. You might detect some warping of spacetime, or the forces (atomic, electromagnetic, etc.) holding your cable together could behave differently.

Phoo, let us take you at your word. Relativity is a robust theory, it does not depend for its conclusions on the finiteness of real material properties.

So, you have a motor that can supply (if necessary) an arbitrarily large amount of torque. You have a rock with finite rest mass, and you have a rotor with let us suppose arbitrarily large tensile strength.

Obviously as your rotor gets going faster and faster, the inertia of the rock (and rotor) grows, so your motor must use more and more energy for each additional increment of velocity. Additionally, your rotor starts to bend. It may do so because of the treeeeeemendous bending moments you are applying – you didn’t say anything about how stiff your rotor is – but even if not that, it will do so because of the finiteness of the speed of light: your delta V applied at the motor end cannot propagate instantaneously down the rotor to the rock, it can travel no faster than the speed of light, which means the ends of the rotors must necessarily lag the hub.

As you continue to pour energy into your motor, the rotor will continue to accelerate, and continue to bend, eventually into a spiral, perhaps, depending on the length of the rotor arm measured in 1/c and the rate of your acceleration. The inertial mass will continue to climb, and the amount of acceleration you get per unit energy will decline.

You will have increasing difficulty feeding energy to your motor, since conservation of angular momentum means it will be counter-rotating to your mass, and since its moment arm is much smaller, it will be spinning a lot faster. But maybe you can use lasers and such. Or, better yet, instead of a motor and a rock, connect two rockets to each end of the stick, and feed the rockets with lasers or whatnot. Eventually aiming at your system becomes tricky, because its inertial mass becomes big enough to distort spacetime, that is, its surface gravity becomes very high. The gravitational interaction between your orbiting rockets is also going to complicate things. I guess you can swivel their exhausts so they maintain tension in the rotor against their mutual gravitational attraction. I’m pretty sure that when the Schwarzschild radius of the system shrinks to less than the distance between you and the system, you are going to lose contact with it, and be unable to feed it more energy. That is, at that point, it becomes a black hole and whatever happens inside the event horizon is no longer observable to you.

Can the rotor tip ever exceed the speed of light, as measured by you, an observer at rest with respect to the axis of rotation? Of course not. How does that square with its continued acceleration? Because the acceleration is not constant, even if you supply energy at a constant rate and nothing breaks. The inertial mass of the rotor increases asymptotically as the rotor tip approaches c, so that a given increment of energy gets you less and less acceleration. Basically, the energy goes more and more into increasing the mass of the rotor and not into increasings its kinetic energy. The end point, as I said, if nothing breaks, is that you pour enough energy into a small enough volume to create a small black hole, at which point you lose contact with your creation.

By the way, I doubt there are any domestic laws or international treaties that prohibit the creation of black holes per se, but nevertheless I would advise conducting this experiment not just in outer space, but at least, say, 10 light years from the Sun, since it will be pretty much impossible to clean up your mess after it collapses to a singularity, and the latter are generally considered severe environmental hazards. We’re talking a Superduper Superfund site. It will probably be small, so eventually Hawking radiation should take care of it, but it may take billions, if not trillions of years to evaporate, and that kind of assurance won’t satisfy the EPA. You could be in for an expensive lawsuit.

Wear safety goggles, also. Even the tiniest inefficiency in converting power to kinetic energy will mean your system will reach temperatures in the X-ray region, I’m guessing, by the time of the final collapse.

Summed up - DON’T TRY THIS AT HOME.:slight_smile:

Carl, this is worthy of Randall Munroe’s what if column. Maybe you could offer to contribute an article or two. Sheer brilliance.

One of its conclusions is the finiteness of real material properties.

If all you are interested in is to exceed the speed of light, then buy a strong laser, point it to a cloud or the surface of the moon. Then twist it fast enough and Voilà !! - the dot on the cloud (or the moon) moved faster than the speed of light :D:D

And no - you wouldn’t violate relativity - but if you think about what you did really hard, you’ll come back with renewed appreciation for physics.