First off, I’d like to see a cite that cops are trained to accurately evaluate whether an emotional reaction to a traumatic event is appropriate. And given that it was one individual police officer making that observation, I have every reason to doubt the validity of such a claim. :dubious:
Lindy Chamberlain was tried in a court, but also tried by the public when she showed a lack of affect in describing the death of her daughter in the early days after the tragedy. IOW, Lindy didn’t cry in front of the media cameras (didn’t behave appropriately), and therefore, according to many, she was guilty as charged.
Good luck to your friend Shagnasty, I hope the new court views the evidence dispassionately and returns a just verdict, whatever that might be.
But the freshly-laundered clothes had no traces of blood on them. Washing does not get all traces of blood out. And a family home having freshly-laundered clothes in the machine is simply normal. This really does not count as circumstantial evidence at all.
The holes are also a bit of a side-track, since there was never any attempt to dispose of the bodies. I mean, really, if the claim is that this man wanted to kill his wife and step-son for the insurance, wouldn’t he want them found? You can’t claim on someone who might still be alive somewhere. Also not circumstantial evidence.
Emotions are hard to read, but saying that someone was crying in the wrong way is ridiculous.
You might be playing devil’s advocate, but if satan existed, he’d be holding his horned head in his hands right now.
See, now, these are the sorts of things I think are baloney, but most especially the old “the suspect wasn’t reacting the way I think people should react in extraordinary circumstances.”
What you have here is a person who was visibly upset and crying, but according to the recollection of one person at the time, the way he was crying wasn’t “right” for a person whose wife and stepson had just been shot to death. (Police officers are certainly NOT trained to know what kind of crying is appropriate in such circumstances.) Tell me; what exactly is the correct way to cry in that circumstance?
If I lost someone that close to me I have no idea what my immediate physical reaction would be; the emotional shock would be so great it’s impossible to predict. Characterizing the “he wasn’t crying right” bit as being evidence of any meaning whatsoever is just ludicrous. It means absolutely nothing.
The quote from the deputy about how she interpreted his crying sounds like complete bs and I don’t know how anyone with an IQ over 70 would seriously consider her unfounded opinion as anything relevant. Was this in Mississippi? Did they have a quack bullet trajectory “expert” there, too? States use so much false “evidence” to get their false convictions. It’s sad that intelligent people fall for this.
The Free Jason payne twitter account posted that the 2014 date had been postponed and then posted an article in the summer of 2014 that stated the DA would be recusing himself. I don’t see anything new since then. Perhaps OP knows.
NEW trial date March 7, 2016.
FWIW, Almost all the pro-guilt blogs and facebook groups are really heavy on some “He must be guilty because God found him guilty at the trial and he was a sinner” type of comments.
Why call the forensics expert “corrupt”? I’m assuming that you mean “the cops have a theory and the FE just went along with it”, but, I’d like to be sure of it. To me, “corrupt” means that somebody will gain, personally, by giving incorrect testimony.
No update, but, I read your link. Man, it sounds to me like the guy was a real Fruit Loop! Of course, the appeals ct. found that it wasn’t admissible, but, legal technicality aside, if what Hawthorne said was true, there’s no reason, from my reading of the concurring opinion, to believe that the defendant wasn’t the murderer.
Hey is not a Fruit Loop in the least. He had some personal problems when his step-son killed his wife and then himself but then it got into unimaginable nightmare territory after the original and completely unexpected conviction. He comes from a good a loving family. I know them all over several generations and they are all excellent people just as he is. He isn’t just a little innocent based on a technicality - he is completely innocent because he wasn’t even there when his stepson killed his own mother and then himself.
In any case, his original conviction was completely overturned so he is not even technically a felon anymore but he has still been in jail all this time because the bail for the new trial was still set too high for anyone to meet. It isn’t the job of the new trial for people to wonder if he maybe did it through some tortured logic. It is a new start from scratch and they have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt because the first trial never happened legally speaking.
Part of the delay in the new trial is for his own benefit. The Innocence Project and his lawyers have to put up an adequate defense this time because you cannot assume that you won’t get the dumbest jury in Texas history once again.
The new trial is coming up this week. Keep your fingers crossed because the life of an innocent person depends on it. My hope is that he won’t get the 2nd dumbest jury in Texas history. He is a kind person that that stumbled across some horrible circumstances just through association. The scary thing is that it could happen to you, me or anyone else. This is a true My Cousin Vinny case. The injustices he has been subjected to can never be corrected but at least he can join his kids again to attempt to live a normal life.
I know many violent convicted felons that are guilty of their crimes. He is the only one that I know personally that is completely innocent. His original case was already overturned so it now depends on a new jury having some common sense.
Keep him in mind if you want to have faith in the U.S. Justice system. He has been in jail even since his original conviction was overturned because bail was set too high for anyone to meet. The only way this is going to get better is when the jury declares him ‘Not Guilty’ in a week or so.
I have already explained this before. I grew up area with an unusually high violent crime rate in a prominent family that had to deal with most of it. Both of my parents taught at schools for underprivileged children when I was young and both my father and grandmother taught at a reform school for young felons. The reform students were great to me when we went to the state fair or the pool to swim and I have fond memories from that. Unfortunately, the long-term outcome for almost all of them was really terrible and almost all of them are dead or in prison now.
I do know an improbable number of murderers, people that were murdered, rapists, arsonists and all other types of felonies through association. That is the main reason I moved far away and chose one of the safest places in the U.S. to live.
Jason Payne happens to the one out of many that is completely innocent. He has already suffered through many injustices that can never be fully corrected but I have some faith that the Innocence Project and a jury that is not brain-dead can recognize that this week. Unfortunately, that won’t fix everything. He will be thrown back on the streets with no assets and have to try to rebuild his life in his mid-40’s with a lot of people trying to make it harder.
Assuming he is found not guilty, shouldn’t he expect some kind of compensation for being wrongly convicted/imprisoned for so long? $80,000 per year? Not enough to coast for the rest of his life, but it should help him get by until he can reestablish gainful employment.
As an update, it looks like the judicial process is working. Here are the current updates.
“More news from Day 2 (March 8) of the trial: Jason’s defense lawyer was EXCELLENT—he’s telling a story and has been very effective in poking holes in the state’s witnesses’ accounts. And he keeps bringing it back to the science and to the importance of listening to what the science is saying. The prosecutor was not particularly impressive; several times, he stumbled over the date of the crime. I can’t begin to emphasize how important it is for Jason’s defense to be telling a story, for that’s really what a trial is all about, telling a story. Normally it’s the prosecution that tells the story and the defense try’s to poke holes in their story. So far it looks like the defense is telling their story.”
“News from the trial. Jason lead defense lawyer’s opening remarks were very well done. His remarks made the prosecution look like minor league, which in fact they are. This is clearly not the first team from the Attorney General’s office that is trying this case. Tomorrow will bring lead detective Miles Tucker to the stand. Defense should clearly be able to poke all kinds of holes in his testimony as evidence found after the first trial showed how he manipulated evidence and perjured himself. Jury selected seems to be above average. Let’s hope so as this is a very conservative East Texas town and it will take a near perfect performance by the defense to get them to render a not guilty verdict.”
The above aren’t my comments. They are from an Innocence Project that has worked hard for many years to get him set free with limited resources and they have done an outstanding job at it. Jason’s original conviction was already overturned and he is not convicted of anything at this point (because he shouldn’t be) but he has still been in prison or jail for about 8 years for a crime that he did not commit.
Keep in mind that his trial is in a very conservative East Texas area that almost never overturns convictions and grants a new trial. It is a miracle that the people that believed in him ever got that far in the first place. The defense seems to be winning at the moment but it isn’t like a football game. All that matters is what the jury decides to believe in the end. We will only know the ultimate outcome in a few days.
I feel guilty about not going to the trial as a show of support. It is very far away but I could have if I was determined to. I did what little I could by sending magazine subscriptions and some money for incidentals but that means nothing compared to the horror that he has lived through.
Some national media is covering the trial and he will likely get some press and compensation once he is declared not guilty but that is not even remotely worth it. His wife and stepson are still dead, the whole family is under extreme stress, and he missed most of his kids formative years.
That is what happens when the ‘justice system’ goes horribly wrong.
The new trial is now in the hands of the jury to render a verdict. The new defense put up a good case that should have been made the first time before this nightmare ever got started. I have faith that Jason will be found innocent but you can never tell when it comes to small conservative towns. There should be a final decision within just a few days. He had a lot of people on his side just due to the convenience of never committing the charges against him in the first place or even being there when they happened.
We will have to see what the jury decides though. I will will keep you posted on the final verdict.