A mentally ill person's scattered thoughts on Eliot Rodger

  1. For some reason the media, and various columnists at its various levels, have tiptoed around how seriously mentally sick this guy was. It’s been mentioned that in high school he was seeing a therapist every day. I think without an understanding of the mental health system it’s hard to imagine how rare that is. After I was sent home from the hospital after a suicide attempt, I was ordered to see a therapist once a week. And that wasn’t some insurance guideline; after less than a month of that the therapist suggested that I would be able to cut back sessions to once every two weeks. I didn’t even see a therapist every day when I was in the hospital; nobody did, unless they were in the “bad ward.” I cannot imagine how bad off you have to be to be seeing a therapist every day, even for a brief amount of time. To be honest, I can’t even imagine that seeing a therapist every day would do all that good; even on a weekly basis I ran out of things to talk about with the therapist very quickly.

Having said that, I don’t know why this part of the story has been so buried. Perhaps it’s assumed anybody going on a shooting spree is mentally ill, so it’s hardly worth mentioning it. But in what I’ve read it seems writers are projecting their previously-held beliefs on this person; he is a blank canvas that represents what they want eradicated from life. Why he did what he did, or how we can stop the next person from doing it, has long become irrelevant. While they argue, I will sadly wait for the next mentally ill person to snap, and remember to take my medication as prescribed.

  1. If this person is simply the latest in a long line of mentally ill people to fatally lash out at others, why am I writing this? I, too, was 22 and virginal once, with what I felt was no hope of getting a girlfriend, of having sex, of living a normal life. How could I, with a significant history of depression behind me? Who would want to be with someone like that? At that stage in my life I had had one affectionless two-month relationship and I was certain that was going to be all in my life. I had no way of knowing that in two years I would be married, in ten years I was going to be in a polyamorous relationship, in twelve years I was going to be a marriage that managed to last. I was as “incel” as he claimed to be.

And yet when I was at that stage in my life I didn’t join some misogynistic message group. I didn’t despise pickup artists (or whatever their equivalents were called). I didn’t hate women. Why did he? It certainly wasn’t less misogynistic of a time back then; if anything I recall it being much worse. Was I a better person than he? That begs the question, doesn’t it—why didn’t he reject the call of hate?

The only difference I know of is that I had a number of female friends who I cared about. Some of them trusted me enough to tell me about the loneliness in their own lives, or about their mistreatment at the hands of their boyfriends. And it was clear to me that life on the other side of the gender divide was not much different when it came to relationships…probably worse all things considered. Looking back, I do wonder why so many women—whether friends or fellow patients in group therapy—have unburdened their relationship problems on me. But they did and I listened and I took what they said to heart. It’s all I can think of.

And yet at the same time I know there are probably millions of adolescent men across the world in the same situation that he and I were at 22, no relationship, apparently no hope for a relationship, fogged by mental illness into believing they are unwanted and worthless. What drove him to hate? What lured him into noxious “anti-PUA” message boards which fed his hatred? What drove him to kill? I don’t think we’ll ever know, and that scares me. Will you look at my mental illness and see a potential killer because of him? That scares me too.

  1. When I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, my psychiatrist asked me if I had a gun in the house. During every further visit with that psychiatrist, he asked me the same question. He understood the nature of my illness. I live with low to medium-level depression most of the time. But there are also times when I have severe depression, or a mania that sends me whirling around the apartment looking for things to do. Those are the dangerous times. There were times that were so bad I even removed all sharp objects from my office, and had my wife hide the kitchen knives, only to be brought out if we needed them for dinner and she could see me. For three months I had to walk across the hall in the office to borrow a pair of scissors.

I was being safe and responsible in the only way I knew how. I was looking out not only for my own health but for those of others. Yes, it was inconvenient to have to ask someone else to borrow a letter opener, but more convenient than my wife having to explain to her children as to why they would never see me again. Just as it was incumbent on me to control my issues as best as possible around others, it was important for me to protect those I loved and those around me by limiting my access to things that could hurt myself and them. Yes, I had the right to possess those things, but it was not good for me to do so.

There is no defense for this person to stockpile guns and knives, just as there was no defense for him to use them on innocent people. I can’t begin to say what a selfish jerk he had to be, knowing how sick he was, to be hoarding weapons like that. And, as I suggested above, to compound that by wallowing on hate sites, to take the easy way out of blaming others for your problems, and letting that hate build and build until his insanity took over. I can’t imagine he learned anything at all from all of his therapy.

Be good to others, doubly so when you cannot always be good to yourself. It’s the most important thing I’ve learned in this journey. I don’t face my problems alone but I can’t impose on others.

  1. Having said that, I am a bit saddened by those who express disgust that despite his arsenal of weapons he was able to pass a police “welfare check.” A welfare check is not an open invitation for the cops to come and rifle through your belongings. Unless you think that the constitutional right against unlawful searches and seizures doesn’t apply to the mentally ill, then you have to also believe that the police couldn’t look for his weaponry during a welfare check. I hope this situation doesn’t lead to that. I don’t want the cops swarming through my apartment, confiscating anything they thought was threatening, because somebody thought I was acting strangely.

  2. I wish people in America were serious about doing something about mental illness. I’ve seen so many lives destroyed, both by those who are ill and those who deal with their fallout. Usually when something like this happens commentators are quick to say “something needs to be done!” and sometimes even politicians make a half-hearted effort to pretend to do something. This time around there wasn’t even that.

In a way, though, I understand why nothing is done about mental illness. I have come to realize I will never be cured of mine. I can control it, and sometimes it escapes for a while, but it will never be fully away from me. I could sell everything I own, spend all my possessions on a cure, but it would not work. How do you chase a ghost, a disease that slips away from you just when you think you have caught it? The disease is within me. I can ask others for help, but in the long run I must fight it myself. We as a nation have tried so many things: restraining patients, locking up patients, “community care”, drugs with unpronounceable names, therapies from sound to wacky. None of them have quite worked. How can we chase millions of individual ghosts? We’ve tried. And still we end up with a Jared Loughner. A Seung Hui-Cho. An Eliot Rodger. And another person tomorrow, who may slit her wrists, who may take his gun and shoot up the nearest populated location, who may swallow poison, who may smother her children in their cribs, who may hang from a beam in the garage. The ghost goes free in those times, and we only dare hope it only takes its host. I cannot let the ghost go free, but rather must keep it locked up.

I will never be free. And if nothing can be done for me, someone who is fortunate enough to have a loving wife, children who care, a job which pays my way, a place to sleep when life overwhelms, what can be done for everyone else out there struggling with the same ghost who has none of those things? I have known people like these, who have passed in and out of my life during various forms of treatment. I hope they are well, although I fear not. I just pray they are safe.

Doing something about mental illness would mean doing two things America isn’t good at. Firstly, and obviously, spending money on someone other than ourselves; but secondly, admitting we can’t solve a problem but can only alleviate it. There is a curious American belief that if we cannot solve a problem completely, we should not even try to do so—if there is one exception to an idea, the entire idea must be thrown away. There is no one solution for mental illness. No one thing would have saved both me and him, and the innocent lives he took.

I can only chase one ghost at a time. As much as I wish to save everyone, I cannot, and perhaps nobody can–perhaps everyone together can’t. And that is frightening, yes.

This is one of the most sane perspectives I’ve heard.

Bump because this just makes too much sense to be languishing.

Perhaps the therapist was seeing him everyday because he suspected that under that controlled exterior there was volatility and he hoped to get a glance at it to document? Mr. Rodger was well-practiced at hiding his potentially dangerous side in front of authority figures, it appears.

From my perspective the mental illness factor has been downplayed in all of the recent mass shootings. People seem to prefer to focus on the gun as the problem.

That makes sense to me for the your mentioned reason above. You can take a gun away. You can’t take a mental illness away. Maybe it gives people an illusion of control.

It’s worth noting that people with mental illness are disproportionately more often the victims of crime and violence, rather than the perpetrators.

I have a friend who basically snapped due to undiagnosed bipolar disorder with schizoaffective elements (when she would have a severe manic episode, she would start believing things like there was a conspiracy against her and people/the government were monitoring her). What was her reaction when she snapped? Get in her car and try to escape unnoticed; she drove for hours before finally coming down enough from the mania to realize maybe, at least, her husband probably wasn’t involved and maybe there was something wrong. She’s doing well these days with therapy and meds; she’s happy and has a solid career.

My non-expert opinion is that maybe who you are affects your response to extreme life stresses, mental illness, etc. If you’re not a violent person, maybe you would only commit violence under what you thought were the most dire of circumstances.

It does raise some questions, doesn’t it? Was it the influence of his father’s hobby of photographing young women’s backsides? Hollywood materialism? Narcissism? Ennui of the rich? Autism Spectrum ailment? Too much gaming/computer? An unholy convergence of all of the above?

Someone on another forum mentioned that we would be seeing a lot more of these types of disasters in the future (because of guns.) And I’ve been thinking about that.

I believe she’s right, unfortunately. Every generation has it’s own types of problems and the above challenges seem to be the ones facing the Millennials.

An incontrovertible fact of life (and mental illness) is that you can’t help a person who isn’t receptive before they do anything wrong. Whether it’s because they know they’re messed up but don’t think they’re “bad enough” to need help, or because they don’t even know that there’s anything wrong with them in the first place.* No matter how much we fund or try to destigmatize mental illness, there are so many people on the planet that these kinds of tragedies are statistically guaranteed to occur. It sucks, but that’s life. You take the good, you take the bad, you take 'em both and then you have…

*There are plenty of mental illnesses that cloud one’s judgment to the point that they don’t realize they’re mentally ill. I know this phenomenon has a name, but I don’t remember what it is.

Cognoscant, your thoughts are not scattered; they are eloquent. Thank you from the bottom of my lithium, klonopin, and sertraline-saturated heart.

I agree that you have very eloquently expressed some important ideas. I’m curious though about your focus on America’s failures. I wonder if there is a different country that you think has a better approach to treatment of mental illness, and if there is someplace that we can look to as a model of how to do it right?

To me this guy was no less crazy than Adam Lanza or James Holmes or Seung-Hui Cho. But we can see it in their crazy eyes, and identify it.

Obviously this guy couldn’t hide it in his real life. He had no personal relations, intense therapy interventions, police intervention… but since we armchair quarterbacks can’t see it, it must be simple misogyny.

Reminds me a of a co-worker who had a son that was born with brain damage/mental illness since birth. He saw people as “Other”, in a Lovecraftian sense, but it manifested (along with other aspects of mental illness) in extreme racism. If he ever acted on it, would they call him a redneck and dismiss the mental illness entirely?

As Cognoscant points out, this is a complicated subject and the cures and containment might be impossible.

Elliot could have been trying to cope with his symptoms, trying to “fix” something, rather than having a psychotic break. Isn’t it strange that with all his manifestoing and records, we’ll never know?

In my experience, this phenomenon is called “being mentally ill.” The people I knew who were really troubled were the last ones to seek help. My ex-wife, who was anorexic (probably the most deadly mental illness there is, based on suicide and other mortality rates) in her teen years, didn’t seek help. Help was thrust upon her after her mom found her near death on the bathroom floor after one too many rounds of don’t binge-then-purge. It took about six months of hospitalization at various facilities for her to realize there might be something wrong with her. I knew two other people who never reached that realization.

Self-realization is in my opinion the first step towards getting better. If I didn’t know I had bipolar, I wouldn’t be seeking medical help. I wouldn’t be avoiding situations where I could get myself in trouble. I had friends who were self-medicating without realizing, but with street drugs or booze, getting themselves in more trouble along the way.

It’s possible that Rodger never did reach the point of self-realization. This is by no means a defense of him. He had all the tools he needed, particularly access to therapy and other medical help. There was a saying that an ex-alcoholic friend of mine liked to repeat: “It’s not my fault I’m an alcoholic. It’s my fault if I don’t do anything about it.” I feel the same way about my own mental illness.

I’ve been thinking about this off and on. I don’t think any country can really be said to be perfect when it comes to mental health, but as I suggested I don’t think there is a perfect approach.

The place where I think America falls down the most is the tying of the costs of decent healthcare to the workplace. Before I moved here to Miami, I could always get an appointment on short notice at the facility in the brokedown town where I worked. I’d always wondered why until time away brought realization: they were thrilled to see me at my former facility because my insurance company and I actually paid them. They were always willing to work their schedule for me because I was bringing guaranteed full pay, not Medicare or Medicaid or showing up for a post-hospitalization visit without insurance. I remember accidentally seeing the patient list for my psychiatrist there. There was a “$20” next to my name, and nothing next to anyone else’s name. I was the only person all day who was making a co-pay.

The people who are the worst off with mental illness aren’t going to be able to work. Then what do you get? Half-hearted care. You definitely aren’t going to be seeing a therapist every day. You have to fight for everything, meds and therapy and group sessions, while your mental illness is saying, just let me take you over. I am very lucky that I have somehow been able to work through everything, though it has been at some cost to me. I was at my desk eight days after I attempted suicide, because I only had five sick days a year at my last job. I don’t think anyone on the planet can think that was an ideal situation.

Then, too, in America there is a massive stigma about mental illness. I would probably be fired from my job if my boss knew about my illness. Sure, I could take the company to court and maybe win. But then what? I get to live off one year’s pay for the rest of my life? I would get to apply for disability–which is about one-sixth of what I’m making now, and Congress is trying to cut that too. It is too easy in this country to fall down a hole and never come out. A lot of people with mental illness are standing at the edge of that hole and there are too many people who are waiting to give them a push.

Are other countries doing better? I have to say I don’t have much experience with other health systems. And I have to admit it’s hard to know how well another system is working, unless one is actually in it. Having said that: my ex-wife was hospitalized in France. She spent six months in various facilities, and she needed every day of that. She was able to come back to a university degree program and she is now leading a decent life in the career she wanted. She felt safe in her hospital settings. Her family wasn’t bankrupted by the experience. She came out of the hospital a much stronger person than when she went in.

This was not the case with my own hospitalization. I was in for six days and it was probably the longest six days of my life; the only experience I can imagine being worse was jail, and I’ve known people who went through both who claimed jail was better. I saw fights, I saw assaults, I saw incredibly manic and violent behavior completely unchecked. I saw one patient making a drug buy on the phone in the common area. Men were boarded in the same ward as women; I didn’t hear of any sexual assaults but I’m sure they happened at some point. The only thing I got even resembling care was a therapist who came in twice in the time I was there, asking me a few questions for 15 minutes while barely-controlled chaos went on in the hall through the open door.

This was the best treatment my insurance would pay for.

So the first and most important thing I think we need in this country is a mental health system that actually provides care. What I went through was punishment, pure and simple. If it helped, it helped because I realized I was going to do everything in my power not to have to go back. There was a time a year or so ago where I felt like I was close to having to go to the hospital again, where I felt work and family were closing in and my mental health was deteriorating fast. I decided instead to take some vacation days, book an extra therapy appointment, and go to a hotel. When that is a significantly better option than residential treatment…something is wrong. I couldn’t find a mental health facility I could trust at any price. Drug and alcohol treatment centers, sure. Weight loss camps, absolutely. But no mental health treatment center that actually, you know, treated people.

Would this have prevented a kid who picks up a gun and starts shooting people? No, I don’t think so. There have been too many incidents in Europe to attest to that. Again, I think these things are for people who realize they need care. I’m not sure what we, or any country, need to do to detect those who haven’t reached that stage.

This reminds me of a comment someone made about George R. R. Martin. Imagine if Martin was, instead of the dynamic and clever author he is, a rank scribbler writing sub-slash fiction rants. And say he produced a novel along the same themes as A Song of Ice and Fire. Any psychiatrist reading this jumbled text with all its references to rape, murder, and incest would be thinking, jeez, this guy is nuts! But because Martin is an excellent writer, we recognize his work as genuine fiction; that he does not want a world filled with the things he describes, but rather that he describes a dystopian world that draws us in then wreaks havoc in our emotions.

So is Rodger just a bad writer? I disagree; I don’t think he was sane enough to be able to distinguish his fantasies from reality. I think his “manifesto”–and I call it that out of ironic contempt, as there is nothing about it that rises to the level of a real call to action–pretty much is what he believed, because he wasn’t capable of saying anything else.

When I am particularly depressed or sick I find myself incapable of writing fiction; every character starts sounding like me, every plot device becomes something from my own life. I can’t become somebody else because it’s hard enough being me. Frankly I don’t see him being able to make that leap either.

No fooling. Very impressive.

A couple of other thoughts from today, when things weren’t going well for me.

  1. During the time I was 22 and virginal, I had a number of friends suggest to me that my problems–by that I assume the obvious depression I exhibited especially after the breakup of my affectionless relationship–would be taken care of if I could get “one good lay.” Yeah, I know, typical male sexism about the utility of banging some random chick. Nope. Every single friend who suggested this was female. Now they weren’t offering themselves (though honestly I wouldn’t have known if they were, seeing as I’d cluelessly turned down a chance at another relationship right after the breakup) or looking for available friends. But they truly did believe that if I could have sex with someone, my depression would go away.

I think that whether held be men or women, and held about men or women, the idea that sex can cure or even ameliorate mental illness is a theory that has to go away, the sooner the better. I can point to any number of unhealthy relationships I’ve been part of, or known well, to convince you that relationships alone don’t really help. It’s true I suppose that loneliness isn’t great for mental health in any sense, but a bad relationship can certainly make things worse.

Not to say that a little bit of casual sex when I was feeling such low self-esteem wouldn’t have been an enjoyable diversion. But it would have been no holy grail to wellness. Too many people think it is. A lot of those people seem to be on these “anti-PUA” boards. I was thinking today about how ironic it was that my well-meaning female friends were pushing the same idea that drove a misogynistic adolescent to mass murder.

  1. One of the things I worry about when something like this happens is that persons like me will be further marginalized. I’ve heard people (including on this board) say that people with bipolar disorder shouldn’t be around children, shouldn’t be working, and I guess should be locked away where “normal” people don’t have to be near them. I don’t think these people realize they probably know someone close to them with a serious mental disorder…and that not so long ago those people they love would have been locked away in an anonymous state hospital. There was one next to the town where I grew up, slowly decaying along with its purpose. It didn’t even have a name.

I’m not sure how to say this the right way. There has been a lot of…discussion about the way in which men behave around women in the office, in bars, or in public. I freely admit to being awkward around women. I’m awkward around everyone, people. I’m awkward around my own wife sometimes, and we’ve been married for over six years. It’s kind of this thing I have to carry.

I don’t want my lack of social skill to be construed as harassment. If anything, my equally awkward nature around both genders should be a sign that I don’t treat women any differently than men. And if awkwardness alone is harassment, I think that does a great disservice to women who have been harassed in the past. My wife was a victim of sexual harassment in her workplace, and I don’t think she’d take too kindly to some of the discussions I’ve seen recently.

I have to admit I didn’t read a lot about Rodger other than his illness until today. Two things jumped out at me that I haven’t seen much discussion of. The first is that the boasting, sneering Rodger seen on the videos wasn’t the same Rodger most people knew. That’s a dangerous sign in a mentally ill person. Marked personality changes are sometimes a precursor to suicide or violence. When a normally morose person suddenly becomes cheerful and generous, we let our guard down because we think things are getting better for them. But there’s also a chance that they’ve made their last decision. It seemed to me that his changed attitude on the videos was a sign that he’d made up his mind about what he was going to do–that fantasy was going to become horror.

But most of all what surprised me was the description of Rodger pre-assault. Everyone described him as an extremely depressed person. The kind of person who is only displacing air sometimes. Now I know that after something like this happens the common refrain is “we had no idea he was going to do this.” But the people–you could hardly call them friends–who knew him seemed genuinely surprised by it all. The words of one young woman who knew him hang in my mind. Pressed by an interviewer to describe what someone who had just murdered six people in cold blood was like, all she could think of was “he seemed like someone who needed love.”

We all do. Some more than others. But we all do.