A Million Poor Young Black Men in Jail

[ZomZom]

I think one thing that is missed in these discussions, maybe because we take it as a given and fail to notice this giant elephant in the room, is the glaring difference in crime rates between the sexes. That difference is so great as to make any racial or cultural variance minor in comparison.

[msmith537]

@Honesty

Right.

Well at least he didn’t rape any babies.:rolleyes:

By the way a DUI conviction generally doesn’t preclude you from working again, except maybe as a driver.

[StusBlues]

@Honesty

I

How is it unfair? These individuals have paid their debt to society and should be able to integrate back in. If you don’t want to hire them, why not put them on a welfare rolls and be done with it? Mission accomplished. Because whether you’ll acknowledge this or not, legal employment and educational discrimination against ex-cons is the engine that drives ex-cons back to criminal activities as a means to gain revenue.

• Honesty

I never said I didn’t want to hire anyone, but I cannot see hiring anyone without being able to make a reasonable check of their background. A poster above spoke of hiring two folks who had done some time, and I applaud them for that. They knew about the criminal records going in, however, and were able to take that into account.

[msmith537]

@Minnie_Luna

I am reminded of the Johnny Depp movie Blow. He is sent to jail for dealing pot and his cell-mate/friend in prison is a coke dealer. The quote is "Danbury wasn’t a prison, it was a crime school. I went in with a Bachelor of marijuana, came out with a Doctorate of cocaine. "

It may have been a “crime school” but George Jung (Depp’s character) didn’t need to be its valedictorian. Criminals are very good at justifying their criminality. They will frequently city hardships, societal pressures and other extenuating situations to portray themselves as hapless victims of circumstance. And they will often lie and Praise Jesus! and manipulate sympathetic people.

Take **Honesty’s **neighbor for example. It doesn’t take a genius to see that he was given the maximum sentence for carrying a concealed weapon because he was a known drug dealer. The DA took the opportunity to get a criminal off the street by charging him with another serious crime that they could actually prove. Honesty is trying to make it seem like the system singled this guy out to come down on.

“No one will hire the poor man so he’s forced to go back to dealing drugs!”

I wouldn’t hire him because he is a drug dealer who apparently attracts gun-wielding crackheads! God forbid one of his former “clients” comes to work at the Pizza joint or the local Walmart and starts some shit there.

[mswas]

@Honesty

Very angry black man here.

Briefly, I had a neighbor who dealt drugs on the east side of Detroit. A client, high-as-a-kite walked to him while he was getting into his car and shot him. My neighbor crawled into his car, retrieved his firearm from his glove compartment, and shot the man dead. He was sentenced for five years for carrying a concealed weapon (though he only served a portion of that sentence). While in jail, he turned to God and was eager to start life anew. Once he was released, he applied for jobs ranging from Pizza Hut delivery man to Wal-Mart and was turned down because of his prior record. When I suggested school (he has a high school diploma) , he told me that he doesn’t qualify for financial aid (because of his record).

So he is back to selling marijuana and crack-cocaine in Detroit. And frankly, I don’t blame him at all. While this might sound Rev. Wright-ish: I think that’s precisely what the justice system wants him to do. <shrug>

• Honesty

Damn, that fucking sucks.

[mswas]

@Chronos

The other problem with the prison system is that when you throw someone in prison, you’re putting him in an environment for a few years where his potential social group consists entirely of criminals. Of course this isn’t going to teach folks not to break the law: Quite the opposite. When they get out, they apply the lessons they learned in prison, and end up even worse.

No, I don’t know what the solution is, either.

How about community service? Obama talked about having a civilian service core. How about having a job where they HAVE to work, where they will interact with local businesses and local government meeting people from all walks of life, receive a living wage and be monitored in their progress.

Also, make Marijuana completely legal. Marijuana prohibition is evil.

[msmith537]

@mswas

How about community service? Obama talked about having a civilian service core. How about having a job where they HAVE to work, where they will interact with local businesses and local government meeting people from all walks of life, receive a living wage and be monitored in their progress.

Don’t they already use community service as an alternative to jail for certain nonviolent crimes.

The thing is a lot of criminals are in jail because that’s where they deserve to be. They are violent murderers, theives, rapists and other dangerous felons. People don’t care if they “find jobs” or “are productive members of society” or are “rehabilitated”. They just want them the fuck out of the general population so they can’t hurt normal hardworking people.

Obligatory link to Chris Rock’s How to Not Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police.:
Obey the Law
Use Common Sense
Stop Immediately
Turn That Shit Off
Be Polite
Shut the Fuck Up
Get a White Frie
Don’t Ride with a Mad Woman

[mswas]

As funny as Chris Rock’s single note is, my point was a bit more comprehensive than the community service thing we have now. Basically the idea was to employ people in such a way as to help them move up in society when they have no idea how to do it otherwise. This is for the petty criminals who don’t know of something better to do, not for the violent criminals, who are incidentally a minority of who is incarcerated.

[Wesley_Clark]

@msmith537

“No one will hire the poor man so he’s forced to go back to dealing drugs!”

I wouldn’t hire him because he is a drug dealer who apparently attracts gun-wielding crackheads! God forbid one of his former “clients” comes to work at the Pizza joint or the local Walmart and starts some shit there.

There are a couple of problems with that.

1. You can make the same argument about old people, women, people with children, people with medical issues, married people, etc. because there are perceived or real drawbacks to hiring them too. I believe 100 years ago in Russia you needed an employer’s permission in order to get married because of how it would affect your job performance. In some states employers are not able to do criminal background checks anymore, which is fine by me. If someone wants to reform and not be a destructive force in society, we shouldn’t put up extra barriers to that.

2. If people who have gotten out of prison cannot find a stable job, then they are a bigger risk to society as a whole.

[mswas]

Two things about Honesty’s story.

1. Aren’t there programs to help a person acclimate back into society?
2. If you decide to sell death cut with baking soda, you’re a douchebag. Better to beg for change than profit off of people’s doom. That being said I have no problem with Pot dealers, Crack dealers can go screw.

[msmith537]

@Wesley_Clark

1. You can make the same argument about old people, women, people with children, people with medical issues, married people, etc. because there are perceived or real drawbacks to hiring them too.

Maybe. Except those things are generally not a potential danger to the company or society.

@Wesley_Clark

2. If people who have gotten out of prison cannot find a stable job, then they are a bigger risk to society as a whole.

I agree, but I don’t know what the solution is.Although here are some tips.