Thought you’d get a kick out of that part.
-XT
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact Written by Jewish Pulitzer prize winner. long
What is this, driveby link day?
We’ve got red, doing his same old song and dance. He provides an opinion piece, suggests that anybody who pays attention to facts and context is ‘rabid’, beats up on his imaginary strawman fabout how people have been accused of anti-semitism for criticizing Israel by any poster in this thread, and as usual fails to actually debate any issue. With any luck, we will be given another video with blatant spin and deliberate ignorance of facts and context, and/or the word “bias” will be used at least a dozen more times in lieu of addressing refutations.
Then we’ve got gonzo providing the same driveby link he did in another thread, with nary a word of elaboration or analysis. He seems to be suggesting, much like red was, that the fact of the author’s religion or ethnicity matters… at all. I’m not even sure what to say about that, let alone this practice of debating-by-avoiding-all-debate.
It’s almost like some folks don’t know the difference between voicing an unsupported opinion and engaging in a rational debate. Almost…
I dunno. The same way you define the “religion of Peace”? There’s a relationship in there somewhere so if you figure out a good definition it should apply to both.
FWIW I went to a structured open forum given by a local Mosque after 9/11. Since I have nothing to gauge Muslims by except for their ability to spontaneously combust I’ll assume this group of Muslim-Americans fell into the “moderate” category.
I would compare a moderate Arab (I’m assuming that’s supposed to be moderate Muslim) with a Fundamentalist Christian and go so far as to say they are to the right of that description. They were very polite but I don’t expect to see any of them at a blues festival. They were a pretty conservative lot.
What I found most telling was their explanation of the destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan as justifiable under Islamic Law (false idols not allowed). This amounted to tacit approval of the event. When I asked about the pyramids of Egypt I got a deer-in-headlights look.
Ah, Gideon Levy. Just another one of our knee-jerk Lefties (not that we lack knee-jerk Righties, either, although none of them publish in Haaretz, of course). Our country’s always wrong, our country’s always too violent, too insensitive, too arrogent, blah blah blah. I hear you have people like that in the U.S., too. I read his article, occasionally, and he makes some pertinent point once in a dog’s age, but I usually just skim past it. You know about Sturgeon’s Law? How 90% of everything is crap? That applies to op-ed pieces, too. God bless the free press.
No calls to destroy Israel, though. At least none that I noticed.
So, am I a “rabid Zionist”? I’m a Zionist, certainly, so in your eyes I may be a priori rabid. I did bite my wife earlier, but there were… extenuating circumstances.
I think EVERY day is driveby link day for this guy (Red NORMALLY at leasts makes the effort to quote what he thinks is the relevant parts). He seems to think that one should simply post a link and then hope that people will read the link and be able to tease out what the hell was his point…and that THIS is engagement in debate. Then he gets hurt feelings and looks around in obvious puzzlement when people tell him he isn’t doing so. C’est la vie.
(Oh, and his other tactic is to post something in one thread, ignore comments, questions or disagreement with it, then wait what he obviously feels is a sufficient time to then post the exact same thing in another thread in the hopes that THIS time it will get traction without him having to bother pointing out what the hell he finds relevant, if anything, in said link)
-XT
What is a drive by link. Oh wait it is a way to say my posts have less value than yours which are probably a walk by poster. It wouldnt be childishly poisoning the well .It wouldn’t fit in with insults and slurs. No it is so smug and childish. Growup.
No ass…a driveby link is just what it says. Its when you repeatedly simply link an article without bothering to quote what you think are the relevant parts, but instead simply hope that we dig through the whole thing and then guess what the fuck your point was. DO YOU GET IT OR ARE YOU SIMPLY TOO DENSE TO UNDERSTAND?? If you REALLY want to debate, then when you link something you should do some fucking work and quote what you think is relevant AND then perhaps explain WHY the fuck you think its relevant…instead of your standard driveby bullshit.
Sheesh.
-XT
Let me splain.
Israel according to the Hersch article says the war plans had been drawn with assistance from the US for quite a while. Thet were in place long before June 12 kidnappings. When I thought they were a rediculous reaction to skirmashing ,you said they started it. \The pentagon noted that there were many cross border incidents. They were waiting for the timing to be right. When I said tha,t you said I didn’t know what I was talking about.Is The pentagon should get it’s info from you.
Richard Armitage, a radiical lefty , I guessSaid"if the most dominant military force can’t pacify a country of 4 millionwe should rethink Iran a country of 70 million The only thing bobmbing has acheived so far is to unite the population against Israel"
When I said it you guys totally rejeted it and said they woulfd turn on Hezbollah.
Neocons and some Israelis thought the bombing would persuade Christians and Sunnis would turn against hezbollah. Israel flew over 9,000 missions.
Israel used Kosovo as a model. Wesley Clark ,said In Kosovo the air attacks were to force diplomatic result. “in my experience air campaigns must be backed with boots and the will to finish.”
Divisions about he cost to lebanon and damage from the bombing has caused rifts in the US and Israel. CNN reported Israeli support has dropped from over 80% to 60.
Israel though toughness would win but islamic martrydom changed things. Hezbollah has ties to the Shiite population .Bekaa valley, and S. Beirut where it has a radio station, hospitals’ schools, and charities.
Sounds like a point I made. and was ridiculed for.
Supporters say main goal of bombimg, to turn Lebanes e against Hizbollah isnt working.Strategic bombing has been a failed concept for 90 years. But. they keep doing it.
Funny these sound like ideas I presented in my “drive Bys”.
Resolved: Written by Jewish Pulitzer prize winner. long
High quality debate, not a driveby. “Growup”.
:dubious:
Who has been stopping you?
Answer that, and you may begin to grok why your posts are mostly worthless drivebys.
Oh, and, learn what poisoning the well actually means. Stating that you lengthy seven word analysis of the postiion consisting of " Written by Jewish Pulitzer prize winner. long" isn’t a debate. That isn’t poisoning the well. Seriously, learn what the phrase means before you use it again. I’ll even help fight your ignorance.
It’s also laughable that you think that mentioning that the guy is Jewish means anything, at all.
Newsflash: Jews, Israelis, not, in fact, the Borg.
Gonzo baffled, shocked.
Discussed before in a vacuum by posters who make much more of an effort than you. They also seem to have ignored that those plans were in response to Hezbollah arming itself with rockets for about six years now.
The vast complexities of the situation reduced to “They started it”. Brilliant. When you can’t argue against what someone actually says, use your characteristic tactic of making your arguments as absurd as you can, and then claiming that your own intellectual dishonesty is someone else’s fault.
Could I have actually said, many times in many different threads, that this was not just a reaction to the capture of two soldiers, but simultaneous rocket attacks on Israeli civilians as well as almost a month of attacks prior to that, and about six years on and off before that? Is it really so hard to debate what people actually say?
You do know why people use strawmen, right?
What are you talking about now? Cite?
What exchange are you refering to? I’m fairly certain that you’re mischaracterizing it, as is characteristic for you, but I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I certainly never denied that Israel had valid reasons to attack Hezbollah before now. Quote whatever I said in response to whatever you said.
Okay… and the 15,000 UN troops called in to help pacify southern Lebanon, as well as Hezbollah’s inability to rearm with anything approaching ease don’t fit in.
Cite, or are you making things up again?
Remind me how many times Lebanon agreed to have 15,000 UN troops help reign in Hezbollah? Before the current war, that is.
It’s sad, but you probably actually believe that.
Nobody has argued that Hezbollah doesn’t have support in south Lebanon.
Again, cite?
I suspect you are again making things up, and deliberately distorting what was actually said. Either that, or sadly, you honestly aren’t able to accurately report what was said… for whatever reason.
Or, perhaps more to the point, this seems to get at why you seem totally unable to comprehend what a debate consists of. Saying that Hezbollah has ties to south Lebanon isn’t a point, it’s a fact in a vacuum. It seems you’re unable to tell the difference.
When I was getting my M.Ed, the greatest professor I’ve ever had used something called the “So what?” test. In short, any statement you make has to have logical support, elaboration, and implicit reasoning for its conclusions. Do you think “Written by Jewish Pulitzer prize winner. long” passes the “So what?” test?
Ooooooh, supporters say that. And here I thought that the Israeli government and the IDF were saying that degrading Hezbollah’s capacity to wage war was the main goal of the bombing.
This is so very sad. You honestly seem to think that " Written by Jewish Pulitzer prize winner. long" is not a driveby, but participation in a debate.
And no, strategic bombing is not a failed concept. Do you remember how many hours the ground war went on for during Desert Storm?
New day, same old song and dance. Will you accurately report what others say, instead of fighting against these silly strawmen and claiming victory? Will you engage on the disputed points, or switch the topic?
Whoa there Lucy, while your splainin thins you’re going to have to splain that one. hezbolla is not a Christian backed organization. How do you turn against and organization you were never a part of? And you will never turn Iranian/Syrian backed Sunni’s away from hezbolla because they ARE Hezbollah. Its a defacto army state inside a state. This was about straws and Israel has reached its last. They now have a UN approved defacto army marching into Lebanon. Just like it was in the days of Reagan.
Hezbolla just won Lebanon a ticket to ride back to 1980 (minus a few passengers). I’m sure they will spin the occupation of UN troops into some kind of victory until the reality of the set-back hits them and then it’s back to killing the UN troops.
poisoning the well-adverse information about someone pre emptively given for intention of discrediting what person says/
Drive by poster-someone who doesnt think things out and just haphazardly posts them.
When you refer to me as a drive by you are telling people not to place value on what I say. It is a perfect usage.
The jewish part was not for you. If someone took thre time to read it they might have thought he was possibly anti semetic. It was for them.
I did not say Hezbollah was Christian org. actually the opposite. The thought was that when Israel bombed them ,the people would turn against them and blame Hezbollah and turn on them, Christians were part that they thought would turn against them.
With no understanding why , I saw CNN ,and PBS news panels say Hezbollah won the war. Certainly not on the terms we are used to. They took a lot more damage. But, in the mideast when someone stands up to the aggressors and survives ,he is a hero. If Sadaam had escaped and we finally withdrew ,he may have been seen as a hero. They think a little differently than we do.
Thread for you gonzomax…sorry, you didn’t get top billing and have to share with rjung, but you just weren’t worth a pit thread of your own.
-XT
No light penetrates the black hole you live in. You know it all and are way beyond learning. There is no other side.
The argument that Israel only kills civilians because the rockets are in neighborhoods in rediculous. If the rockets were in a military base. And Israel owns the skies and can bomb at will. What would happen to them . Let me think about it.
Their rockets wouldn’t last 24 hours.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081400362_pf.html nAnother thought against preconceptions.
Returning to their devastated homes, the people of Lebanon claim victory | World news | The Guardian Lebonese view.
Finnagain,
You actually seem to understand what Gonzo has been saying here. Could you explain it to the rest of us? Maybe not to the rest of us, but to me? I’m sorry, I want to engage in debate, but I haven’t understood a thing he’s saying for a while now. I don’t think I’m a stupid man, but I can’t parse his point at all. Reading his posts makes me want to put my head gently down into a gentle pool of icy cold water. Cool, cool water…