A new game: What do you WANT to happen after the war?

This is not necessarily a debate, per se, but since this is about the Hot Topic du Jour, I think it’s the safest place for this thread…

Okay, to get away from the usual yelling and arguing about the US-Iraq war and George W. Bush and Saddam Hussein, I want to try a little fantasy-indulgence here:

What should happen in Iraq after the war? The fighting’s over, the dead are buried, the injured are bandaged, Saddam Hussein is history (dead or fled, your choice), any nasty WMDs are properly disposed of… what, in your wildest fantasies, do you want to happen next?
My fantasy: Determined to prove that the war really was about ousting Saddam and freeing the Iraqi people (and not about a grubby grab for Iraqi oil), Colin Powell goes before the United Nations, apologizes for running around the Security Council, then urges them to create an interim government for Iraq. The UN cooperates, assembling a multinational civilian panel to oversee Iraq until the nation stabilizes and open elections can be held. Coalition forces are replaced/supplimented with UN Peacekeepers, and their presence and firepower keeps the various warring factions from turning on each other. Iraq’s oil fields are placed in a national trust, and drilling rights are bid upon by petroleum companies from all nations, with no preferential/handicapped treatment based on nationality. Donald Rumsfeld apologizes for his “Old Europe” remark, George W. Bush apologizes for his unilateralist moves, and German restaurants start selling Coca-Cola again.

Yeah, yeah, I know, fat chance. But hey, what’s your pipe dream? :wink:

Three independent States: One for the Kurds (with constitution guaranteeing respect for Turkish territory), one for the Sunni, one for the Shiites.

rjung, I read the title of this thread, and your exact same fantasy popped into my head. The only thing I can add would be that any trials of former Iraqi officials be conducted by the new Iraqi government, in Iraq, under an Iraqi system of justice.

I think its very important that we ensure that any oil deals are extremely favorable towards Iraqi interests, not ours and not Europeans. If that means letting Iraq set up a state-run oil industry, so be it. The dispute over unfair oil rights is what helped to destabilize Iranian democracy, and I would hate for the same fate to happen to a new Iraq.

I hate to inject a note of cynicism into your fantasy, rjung, but any democratic government you set up in Iraq isn’t going to last very long. As has been pointed out by others here before, there is no tradition of democratic governments in the region, and the power vacuum would require the Coalition and/or UN to hang around for many, many years.

In my fantasy world, Iraq responds like Japan did after WWII and becomes a leading enlightened democracy. T’ain’t likely to happen, though.

(Sorry, rjung, I just came across you making precisely the same argument in another thread. :smack: )

I know I haven’t been posting here long, so nobody reads my posts, but I don’t understand this statement at all. Turkey is currently a democracy. Iran and Lebanon were democracies until outside influences destabilized them.

Riyadh announces that Saddam Hussein has fled to exile in Saudi Arabia but has choked on a cocktail weenie and died in the Riyadh Airport snack bar. The U.S. Army comes upon a plant making chemical and biological weapons so horrific (and in a ready state to launch against the United States mainland, or at least Israel) that world opinion is shifted dramatically in favor of U.S. intervention.

The fledgeling Iraqi democracy defies all odds and becomes a unified and healthy state. The UN, with full U.S. support, passes a resolution making it impossible for oil companies to lock Iraq into long-term deals until five years after Saddam’s regime is gone. In the meantime, they can make preparatory deals all they want, subject to independent review to ensure no exploitation of the war-weary Iraqis.

With the threat of a hostile Iraq gone, Israel finally goes back to the bargaining table, disassembles the settlements, and withdraws to the 1967 borders. A historic peace agreement is signed.

The U.S. Congress eliminates GWBs tax break for the rich and balances the budget. The US economy turns around so quickly that it isn’t even slowed by the announcement by Bush that he will not run again due to a relapse into alcoholism brought about by too many parties celebrating peace in the Middle East.

Essentially, I am proven wrong in every single opinion I currently hold.

I would love to see huge pro-West rallies in the street, and for the new govt of Iraq to designate new Iraqi national holiday, “Liberation Day”. And I would love to see how Al-Jazeera, Abu Dhabi TV, the Egyptian press, et. al, try to not cover these events, and lose credibility with their audiences…

I would like to see a UN resolution passed absolving the new democratic govt in Iraq of any pre-war debts incurred in transactions for materials, products, and services banned for sale to Iraq by previous UN resolutions. [The rationale: that those transactions were illegal in the first place, and that the Allied forces seize and destroy as many of those materials as they can find after the war.]

Of course, the French, Germans, and Russians would never allow its passage… since they would be the ones getting stiffed.

And I would love to see a new Arab enthusiasm for democracy catch on and prevail in places like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen…


Turn the 14th of July Street to the 4th of July Street in Bagdad.

More golf courses.

More middle-eastern swimsuit models in SI.

More vineyards that produce better wine than the French.

Whimsical at best…

First we deal with the injured and with feeding the population. We secure the borders and garrison troops. We take the oil to finance the cost of the war, and to rebuild Iraq’s infrastructure. We then use Iraq as a base for any further operations in the vicinity, and that gives us a very nice area within range.

Everyone looks around at the carnage, and goes “My God, why do we keep having these dumb wars? Let’s never do this again.”

Hee. Oh, I laugh at my own naivete.

In the year 2004, Iraq is successfully reborn as a working democracy, through tactful guidance from the United States and it’s friends. In a few years the second arabic rennaisance takes place. The middle east prospers from it’s natural resources for a while, excelling in peaceful diplomacy, and manifests it’s political and economic influence around the world. Many look to Iraq for leadership and advice.

Then, in the year 2030, in Baghdad, a gifted man narrowly wins the presidential election. Some other men, in his staff, endorse a new foreign policy doctrine that he, in his heart, knows is right for his people and their neighbours: They, with their newfound strength and wisdom, has the right and obligation to first and foremost pursue the interests of themselves. For Iraq is a great society and it’s people wise and generous.

But the people are scared; Scared that their oil resources, their good fortune, may one day run out. So to consolidate this treasure for future generations, the loving president seeks help from his allies, the arab countries. Together, they strike a deal to raise triple the oil price. In this way the oil will last them three times as long while still generating the same profit. The arab democracies prospers.

Other democracies, the Western ones, has for some time been in a declining state. They have never quite recovered from the huge deficits known as the “gulf economic crisis”.

The oil shock becomes the final nail in the coffin of the “old west”. It is down on it’s knees for the first time in 600 years. It’s societies are plunged into a state chaos. Civil wars emerge. Powerless, it becomes a playground for the new world players.

And at last, after 500 years, a new world order is born.

Or maybe i could have just wished for happiness for all? :wink:

As horrid as it sounds, I think that there should be detrimental repercussions of a lasting sort for the American populace. I think we should be forced to recognize the error of following politicians despite concerns and objections of the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The American mainstream becomes fundamentally savvy in such difficult topics as geography, critical thinking, international affairs, analysis of news reports, how to distinguish Osama bin Laden from Saddam Hussein…
The “Arabic world” becomes fundamentally savvy in such difficult topics as how to exploit American media for your own political gain, geography, critical thinking, analysis of news reports, how to distinguish GWB from me…

I hope that the connections between folly and failure are established firmly enough that this history never has to be repeated.

And maybe France’s populace should too, since their leader is just as much of a fucktard as ours. (Note: this is sarcasm, this is not my actual opinion)

I live in America, I didn’t vote for Bush or his administration, in fact quite the opposite. I didn’t support this war, and still do not think it was a wise course of action for us to take. (although now that we’re commited, I pray for our troops, and the troops of those countries that went in with us, and hope this comes to a resolution as soon as possible, with as little life lost as possible, for both the Iraqi people AND ours) I think Bush is a complete asshat. I can’t WAIT till he’s out of office. Freedom fries? What are we, in fucking kindergarten? You think there aren’t already detrimental repercussions of a lasting sort occuring to my country? Which, by the way, I love, in spite of the fucktard currently in charge of it.

My country’s people should suffer for the actions of Bush, even though MANY here are against his choices? :rolleyes: We already are, fuck you very much.

FYI…not all of us are fucking mindless sheep, you know. Some of us really can think for ourselves. (Just don’t tell anyone, we wouldn’t want it to get out, we really secretly enjoy being touted worldwide as completely ignorant flag-waving redneck morons who couldn’t pick out their homestate on a map*)

    • This statement was composed of pure 100% American-made sarcasm. Do not be alarmed, it doesn’t hurt for long.

The UN has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq after we crush Saddam. A new vibrant Iraqi democracy springs up, much like Japan after WWII. Regional terrorism declines with other ME powers making nice hastily with the US. Israel straightens borders with the Palestinian state after three-year cessation of terrorism.

Bush sets up a new government out of imprisoned Iraqis and Ex-patriots. The new government gets billions in aid and becomes known as the “Shining Jewel” of the region. Oil wealth declines as a precentage of GNP, due to the advent of lots of education and new universities. Bagdad is set to host the 2020 Olympics.

German and French economies collapse, while Southern and Eastern European states boom. America experiences a decade of record growth, particularly in the biotech industry. The EU dies a slow death.

In 2017, Iraq asks the US to become the 51st State. The US requires it to be split into two parts (North and South Iraq). Puerto Rico follows suit.

"German and French economies collapse, while Southern and Eastern European states boom. America experiences a decade of record growth, particularly in the biotech industry. The EU dies a slow death."

Is that before or after the aliens sterilize humanity with radiation?

On a more serious note, I am with Rjung when it comes to envisioning what the future should be like :slight_smile:

Post-war Iraq is turned over to France to administer, on the provision that Chirac remains in power. France administers Iraq with the skill and fairness that they did Vietnam, Algeria and the Ivory Coast.

Well, since we’re going to play fantasy, why not go all the way?

Saddam’s heart suddenly grows three sizes and he quickly surrenders to prevent any further bloodshed. He is arrested and put on trial for crimes against humanity, but it turns out the people he supposedly killed were safe and living happy lives in Iraq’s underground happy kingdom. In fact, no one was was ever mistreated, and when Colin Powell pushes a magic button, US bombs fly back up into the bombers ala Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse Five. The dead are resurrected. Since no one is now guilty of anything, all are pardoned and released.

Everyone decides that all these silly religious and political arguments never get anyone anywhere, and thus everybody from then on agrees to share everything equally, always work to the best of their ability so that everything is as fair as possible, and never harm anyone else ever again.

Bush and Saddam, in a symbolic gesture of brotherhood and comedic inspiration, kiss each other passionately.

God, seeing all this, decides his presence is no longer required and bestows immortality and infinite wisdom to the human race. He subsequently retires to Tahiti and can be seen frolicking about with native girls.