A New Perspective on Homophobia (for me, anyway)

Ferrous · July 16, 2003, 5:45pm

OP checking in, just because I feel like I should.

I think this is an intersting discussion. Thanks to the participants.

curly chick raises an interesting point. Probably a lot of men who exhibit misogynistic and/or homophobic behavior would not say they did anything wrong, if you asked them. So how much do they admit it to themselves, and a conscious or unconscious level?

(By the way, by “exhibit homophobic behavior” in this particular instance, I’m not including those like some of the above posters who are “somewhat uncomfortable” with the idea, but otherwise have a laissez-faire attitude towards gays. I’m staying out of that one. )

Ferrous · July 16, 2003, 5:50pm

Please pretend I said “on” instead of “and” in the last sentence of the third paragraph of that last post.

(I even previewed and everything.)

Sofa_King · July 16, 2003, 7:51pm

Maybe I can help a little bit by further elaborating on GMRyujin’s post. I hope I don’t sound too self-aggrandizing about this, but I have a fairly unique view of homophobia which I’d like to share with all of you.

I was first hit on by a guy when I was about fifteen years old, and I’ll be the first to tell you that GMRyujin’s post agrees dead-on with what I was thinking at the time. And while this is embarrassingly naive, I also have to mention an additional thought I had, which was, does this mean I’m gay and just don’t know it yet?

I’ll tell you what, man, I thought about that last question for a very long time. It made me question my own sexuality more deeply than I had ever had to question it before. I’d say I had nagging questions about my own sexuality for close to a couple of years–this is not a subject I wished to discuss with my straight adolescent friends, so I had to go it alone. Then I lost my virginity and the answer was abundantly clear: I am very much a straight man.

Once I became secure in my own sexuality most of my homophobia drained away over time. I no longer feared gay men, because I knew for certain that I wasn’t harboring some secret desire for them. (As an aside, I’ll also mention that it wasn’t until then that I became fully aware of the pervasive cloud of discrimination and even hatred which curses people who are openly bi- or homosexual. You folks have it rough, and I very much admire the courage so many of you have by simply admitting your inclination.)

Many moons have passed since that original incident, and in recent years I have befriended a large circle of gay and lesbian people. I show up for the Pride festival every year, and this year I became a member of the Human Rights Campaign. Several of my gay friends have said the same thing to me–that my friendship is valued in part because I’m a straight guy that isn’t afraid of gay men.

Of course, it cuts both ways. I heard (only second hand, but I have no reason to disbelieve it) that a discussion amongst my gay pals turned to me at some point recently and it was widely agreed that I was a decent chap because for some reason they didn’t fear me. (I’d like to hear some comments from our gay readers to see if they also have some sort of mistrust of straight men.)

A couple of weeks ago I met some gay friends of friends at a party. I’ve been hanging around with these guys long enough that I rarely self-identify myself as a breeder these days. So it probably shouldn’t have come as a surprise that one of these new dudes assumed I was gay and started hitting on me. Actually, I just thought he was a really touchy-feely guy, which just goes to show how dense I am. When I later found out that he had inquired into my status–free or taken, that is–and my pals told him that I was off the books, well, I just had to laugh. That dude was apparently a lot more upset about it than I was.

Sometimes I think about it and chuckle about that fucking jerk who put his hand on my crotch so many years ago. He set me off on a very long and very rewarding road, even if he was an asshole. But it was a long journey from homophobia to acceptance, and the answers came to me entirely from within.

I don’t think a lot of straight guys get the opportunity to do that (virtually every gay man does, I suspect). I particularly think that the guys who treat women like shit are the very guys who question their sexuality the least, and therefore they are the most vulnerable to the possibility of advances by gay men.

I don’t think a man has to be cognizant about how much of a jerk he is toward women to fear gay men; he has to be ignorant of his own sexual inclinations. That ignorance can be a dangerous liability when confronted with the unknown, and I’m sure those guys are aware of that, even if they likely can’t articulate it.

Otto · July 16, 2003, 8:08pm

Pity the poor homosexual who found himself in a relationship with you…

The difference here is that there is nothing wrong with being gay. There is something wrong with thinking that being gay makes the person inferior in some way. Still, if someone would rather be thought of as an asshole bigot than the victim of a disease, far be it from me to upset his world-view.

Stage_Manager · July 16, 2003, 9:22pm

I know several straight men who are comfortable enough with my sexuality that it isn’t an issue. These men I trust.

I also know several other men who, forthrightly or not, are very judgmental and condescending about gay people in general (and by extension, me). These men I do not trust.

Perhaps it’s a respect issue?

Sofa_King · July 16, 2003, 9:47pm

That sounds like a reasonable interpretation to me, Mikie.

Priam · July 16, 2003, 11:21pm

I think where a lot of straight men go wrong is assuming that, for gay men, naked or scantily clothed = turn on. Its a leap from their attraction to naked women, who are mostly naked around them when in sexual mode, to naked men = immediate turn on for gay men. Its also a flawed leap, as can be evidenced by plenty of straight married couples as well as most gay men.

Familiarity breeds comfort. I’ve talked with couples who wander around the bedroom naked just getting dressed for the day (not while they were naked, obviously, but well you get the idea) and don’t feel the need to jump eachother’s bones. Sexual attraction is not just about being nude, but also the atmosphere. A bathroom or changing room quickly loses its novelty (especially bathrooms… eww) after seeing people in the same state time after time. You adjust, and you stop caring.

This is complimented by the fact that any sane young gay male picks up damn good blinders in order to survive. In order to survive PE, you learn tricks to keep your mind occupied, your eyes fixed on the next piece of clothing, and no distractions from entering your vision. Its either that or get caught staring one day and deal with the ramifications. Its natural selection in the gay community. Unless you are very fortunate in where you are, one picks that skill up or one could in fact die.

A lot of straight men don’t have tons of opportunity to learn the former (unless you’re married, shacked up, or living in a very free family), and never need to learn the latter. Thus they ignorantly make the leap that bathrooms and such must be a droolfest for every gay male. I dunno about anyone else, but they were a fscking terror to me.

Plus we could get into the tendency of a lot of men (straight and gay) to assume they’re much hotter than they really are. I died laughing when my brother opined that his friend Matt must really want him.

Doomtrain · July 16, 2003, 11:56pm

Priam, I think you hit on it with the familiarity thing, but I think it’s a little different.

I think if a lot of these straight guys actually knew some gays, they’d probably “fear” them a lot less. There’s this whole mysterious aura around them, you see, and a lot of straight guys don’t know much, if anything, about them.

So you go on what you can sort of figure out (Ok, I like looking…so they must like looking…OH MY GOD! THAT DUDE’S CHECKING ME OUT!) and what others tell you, this the infamous “I heard it from my friends.”

Just my 2 cents.

musicguy · July 17, 2003, 12:02am

Interesting observations concerning blinders, Priam. I had never thought of that.

Concerning straight friends, I have many, and I dearly love some of them (and it is mutual). I trust them with my life. There are also straight people that I don’t trust. Because it isn’t obvious that I am gay, I get to hear the homophobes spout off their crap because they think they are talking to a straight male. (The upside is that it helps me choose friends a little easier).

Having said that, I have to second the poster who mentioned that in many cases, the homophobic male has never known anyone who is gay. The unknown can be frightening.

I had a straight roomate once who had a problem with me being gay but never really vocalized it. I did notice initially that he wouldn’t sit on the couch with me when we were watching tv and little things like that but I didn’t call him on it. He lived with me for a year. Towards the end of our stay together, his dad developed cancer. He started talking to me a lot, knowing that I had gone through the death of my mother to cancer. We did a lot of talking and crying and sharing. When he moved out, he gave me the biggest hug and sent me a beautiful card. He told me that his entire view of gay people had changed. He said that he learned that we are really all just people and we have a lot more in common than not. He also learned that not every gay man wants to seduce a straight male, something he was frightened of. I think he somehow expected me to someday make a pass at him. I didn’t (even though he was incredibly attractive) because I respected the fact that he was not going to be interested. I think that respect caused him to also develop respect.

I think a lot of homophobia stems from fear, not necessarily of gay people directly, but of the unknown.

finoa · July 17, 2003, 12:19am

Sofa King, I know what you’re talking about:
So I’m about 15 years old, sitting at home, and fixin’ to (I’m from Texas) head out of the house to hang out with my friends. I’m literally about to step out the door, when the phone rings.

Me: Hello??
Guy on the other end: Is finoa there?
Me: That’s me.
Guy: Do you know who this is?
Me: Nope
Guy: I know you from school. This girlfriend of mine thinks you’re real cute and she wants to invite you to a party on Friday.

(Today is Monday. Now I am getting interested although I really am running late and need to get out the door.)

Me: Who is she?
Guy: She doesn’t want you to know.
Me: Well, who are you?
Guy: I can’t tell you because then you’d know who she is.
Me: Is she hot?
Guy: Oh yeah totally. You’d know her when you see her.
Me: Look I gotta go, my friends are waiting for me outside. Call me tomorrow and tell me about this party and this girl.
Guy: Yeah, cool.
(Hangs up)

Next day comes, phone rings, I pick up.

Me: Hello?
Guy: Hey it’s me.
Me: Oh yeah. Well what the hell do I call you anyway.
Guy: Call me Juan.
Me: Alright Juan, tell me about this party and this girl.

Juan proceeds to tell me about this great party that he and a bunch of his friends are planning to have in the desert outside city limits. The desert is where you go to hang out, be with your friends and not get hassled by the cops. There were supposed to be lots of beer and this chick really digs me and she’s really cute and really hot but she’s really shy to talk to me even though I supposedly see her every day. This gets me really intrigued and Juan seems like he’s being a good friend to her. Call ends with us planning to talk on Wed about the party and the girl some more.

Next day, Juan calls and he sounds really bummed out. Seems that lots of people are backing out of the party because of something or other but there’s still beer and most importantly, She’s still going to be there. I’m racking my brain trying to think of who this girl could be because the clues he’s giving me are really vague.

Next day, Juan calls and says that even more people are backing out so instead of being a raging party, it’s more like a chill session with a few friends. Because there aren’t too many people, Juan says that he and The Girl can come by my house to pick me up. Now something sounds a little off here but I’m too young/dumb/naive to pick up on what it is, but The Girl is still dead in my sights so I wave off the nagging doubts.

Next day Juan calls to say that everybody crapped out on him.

Juan: Looks like it’s just going to be you and me.
Me: What do you mean, you and me? What happened to Her?
Juan: She can’t come.
Me: dawning realization Juan, is this what I think it is?
Juan: Yeah, probably.
Me: Man, I’m not interested.
(hangs up phone)

The disgust and shock I felt in the next few minutes are really hard to describe.

Part of it was the shame and embarrassment that whatever my personality was, somebody, some FAG, thought I was gay. Am I not MANLY enough? Am I effeminate? Was I sending out the wrong message?
Part of it was the anger of having been deceived. Was it a joke someone was playing on me? Was some fag trying to convert me?

In the next couple of years, the hostility I felt toward homosexuals was typical of what you hear about and expect of homophobes. Mean language, mean thoughts, and an inability to understand why they had to act the way they did, all flamey and stuff.

Then a funny thing happened. I went to arguably one of the most conservative (and inarguably, the BEST:D ) universities in Texas, Texas A&M. I worked at Little Caesar’s Pizza with one of my best friends from high school to make ends meet. The crew that worked there was fantastic. Great people, funny as hell, hard working. One of the guys there was involved in theatre became a good friend of mine. He invited me to a bunch of theatre parties where I learned two things: 1) lots of gay men in theatre and 2) lots of loose woman in theatre. I’m kidding of course about 2), just meaning to imply that theatre women tend to be freer in expressing their emotions and sexuality more, which was fine by me. The gay men that I met at these parties really opened my eyes and this guy that became a good friend of mine helped me understand something. Not all gays are flamey. Not all of them want to have sex with me. In fact, they were very much like me, except they liked boys. Once I got that through my thick skull, so much more became clear. It actually became flattering to be attractive to a gay man. Didn’t give me the warm and fuzzies like having a girl cuddle up to me, but these guys tended to be good looking and in-shape, ergo I’m good looking and in-shape.

Several years and much learning has happened in the meantime, mostly for the better. As to Juan’s intentions, several possibilities exist.
-Could have been a joke by not-close friends. I have mostly discounted this because the joke players would have probably made it public at school shortly thereafter.
-Could have been a joke by close friends. I have summarily discounted this because the joke players would definitely made this public at school shortly thereafter.
-Could have been a closeted gay student, taking first tentative steps toward what he thought was another closeted gay student. The signs are there, not wanted to disclose names or specific details to give away identity. But the thing I never got around was this: I was clearly interested in The Girl and much introspection confirms this in my head. I never wavered from asking questions about The Girl. Shouldn’t this have been a clear indication that I was not closeted?

Regardless, I now live in a city where homosexuality is more than tolerated and in fact is accepted and embraced. I even used to live in the Castro (historically the gay district) and could not have had a better experience.

finoa · July 17, 2003, 12:25am