Oh, and BTW, not all homosexuals engage in anal sex. So make up your mind. Is it people who engage in anal sex that freak you out, or is it homosexuals that freak you out?
You have offered up a theory that homophobia is hard-wired in the brain, but provided no evidence for it. And on top of it, you throw in this:
It is well documented that personal space is a cultural issue. It is a behavior that is learned.
Highway driving is a behavior that is learned as well. You use to examples of learned behavior to support a theory of hard-wired behavior? This is what makes you stupid.
No, because you have no idea how to construct a logical argument, you’re a moron.
I never said that your own sexual preferences made you a bigot. I’m not gay, and i have no interest in being the recipient of anal sex. My own sexual preferences and yours are not the point here.
I was criticizing your sweeping generalizations about what “most men and women” think about anal sex, and about the rationale behind homopohobes’ fear of gay men. That you twist this into an argument that your own heterosexuality makes you bigoted just demonstrates your dribbling idiocy.
You claim that “The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ.” Well, if you’re talking about sex as a purely procreative act, you might be right. But you’ve still failed to respond to the argument that, in terms of sex acts, anal sex is no more or less natural than fellatio or cunnilingus. Or masturbation, for that matter. I mean, how many times did you get a woman pregnant by going down on her? And how would you feel if a woman refused to go down on you because “The mouth was not supposed to be a sex organ”?
Well, if you’re arguing that human beings have not evolved any further than chimps, then unfortunately you are also providing us with strong evidence that this might indeed be true.
This statement, which echoes the OP, seems plausible to me on certain levels, but on other levels it fails. I’d have to peruse the “Ask the gay guy” threads in order to have more insight into gay behavior. Do gay men take turns being on the receiving end of penetrative sex, or is there generally a dominant/submissive partner in the relationship?
From what I’ve seen in movies, people tend to prescribe feminine traits to homosexuals (and therefore link them with the image of a recipient of penetrative sex) rather than imagining them as aggressors. It seems to me that homophobes are more likely to have reduced respect for homosexuals for demonstrating submissiveness, rather than to have hostility towards them for demonstrating dominance. (Now that I think of it, actual behavior of homosexuals is irrelevant here, just the perception by homophobe of homosexual behavior.)
As for my personal opinion of homosexuals: I think I feel the same way about homosexuals as I do about swingers, or participants of S&M, or drug users or motorcycle drivers. If I do not know that somebody participates in any of these activities, it obviously couldn’t cloud my opinion of them. But if I find out that a person is a member of any one of these “groups” then I feel uncomfortable around them. It’s not a matter of respect or judgment, it is a matter of how closely I feel I can relate to the person. I don’t feel I need to be “cured” of this uncomfortable feeling either. If I were hostile toward them, that’d be another story, but nobody can say I shouldn’t be uncomfortable.
Having said that, let me now comment on my being female. My feelings about gay men are not at all related to how a gay man would treat me. If I were a man, I might very well have additional issues, but I think the base thoughts would be the same. I’m equally uncomfortable around gays and lesbians, if that makes any difference.
*Emphasis mine.*BeatenMan you seem to keep stepping in it. A couple of days ago, I was willing to give you points for conceding that you had something to learn and were willing to try to change, but here you just repeat the same tripe that got you flamed to begin with. Your hyposthesis stated above will never help you communicate with Dopers unless you have something at least resembling scientific backing to refer to. You seem to be hell bent on defending your hypothesis despite lacking evidence. That just don’t fly 'round here. Christ in a sidecar, even I know that. Again you would rather find excuses for homophobia than work on the ignorance that’s resulted from your life inexperience. BTW your response with the smileys actually made me laugh out loud. That was good.
I am, as I’ve noted a few times, a heterosexual woman. Part of being a woman is needing to get gynecological exams at intervals which involves having the doctor insert things into my vagina. It’s not comfortable, it’s not pleasant, and I do resort to that old cliche, “lie back and think of England”. The sensations I experience during a gynecological exam have little or nothing to do with the sensations I experience during sex. Since we’re deep in TMI territory, I admit that I love it when a man places certain things in my vagina during sex, especially himself! I suspect, BeatenMan, that you wouldn’t think much of a woman who didn’t enjoy having her vagina penetrated during sex. Your equating a doctor’s exam to anal sex makes exactly as much sense to me as equating a gynecological exam with vaginal sex. I’m not calling you a homophobe; I’m just asking you to realize your arguments are based on emotion, not logic.
Homosexuality is not an activity; rather, it is a sexual orientation. The two are not inseparable terms (“gay virgin” is not a paradox).
Oh, fuck yes. I’ve met female CHILDREN who gaybashed.
And re: anal exams, I’d like to note (WARNING: TMI!) that the difference between a medical exam and having someone stimulate the prostate is … really rather marked.
You’ve just compared being gay to using drugs, S&M, and swinging.
Here is the difference: being gay is who you are. It is who you are attracted to, which affects ones life as profoundly as it would for a straight man being attracted to women.
S&M and swinging is an activity.
Drug use is something altogether different, which while being an activity, has darker connotations.
You choose to be uncomfortable as you could choose to be educated and move past it. If you want to remain uncomfortable, that is your choice, I just doubt it is the wise one.
No, I didn’t. That’s how you interpreted it. I compared my feelings about being around known homosexuals to my feelings about being around people who are in other ways different than I am.
Yes, I realize that now that iampunha pointed it out, that gayness is not an activity like the other things I mentioned. It’s not fair for me to compare motorcyclists to gays because the gays aren’t choosing to participate in this activity/orientation. However, that may just add to my feelings of alienation toward them. I’m just plain uncomfortable around people who aren’t like me.
Nope, I’m not choosing to be uncomfortable. That’s just how I am. And in fact, I am choosing to be educated. I am here, reading this thread, sharing my thoughts, and asking questions. Teach me, and I will learn. But you can’t make me be comfortable about it if I’m not.
A step towards being more comfortable might be for me to invite Mockingbird and Esprix and a whole bunch of other people over to my house for a pool party. On the other hand, that could end up making me less comfortable. Who knows?
Seeking clarification here … but since nobody on Earth is exactly like you, where does the line draw itself regarding what level of dissimilarity is required for you to feel discomfort? I mean, you wouldn’t know it from looking at me (nobody has yet guessed my sexuality based on how I looked. I have to either hint at it or tell them outright. I just don’t flame) what my sexuality is. upon learning it, is there a possibility that you would be uncomfortable because of that new knowledge? This is not meant to castigate, mind you, just to inform me. Mockingbird’s methods are not like mine. His work for those who need to be hit in the head with a brick sandwich. Mine work for those who would … well, not respond well to that;)
If you’re going to be a bigot, at least try to be an educated bigot.
Chimps are sluts. There is no “alpha male” among chimpanzees. They have sex every which way. A female chimp will have sex with several males in succession. Which is why chimps have the biggest testes size in relation to body size among primates.
You’re probably thinking about gorillas. There, a silverback male has a harem of females.
But then, let’s not use chimps or gorillas as our examples of proper behavior. We have bigger brains, which should let us reason that homophobia is stupid.
But then, if you want to go live like a gorilla, go off to Africa and try to find a troop. They probably wouldn’t take you in, anyway.
No problem. I knew I’d get grief agreeing with that particular poster.
I’m sure I could get to know and like some men who happen to be homosexual, but I believe it would be easier to do so if I didn’t know they were homosexual.
Assuming that I did happen to get to know a homosexual, and then learned his sexual orientation, then yes, I believe that might make me uncomfortable. I became quite uncomfortable around one of my past boyfriends from high school once I learned that he was a drug user. I’m also a little uncomfortable around my neighbors now that I know that they are Jehovah’s witnesses.
Maybe in another ten years I’ll learn to embrace differences instead of shun them.
You’ve now helped me understand why a guy I’ve known since 5th grade sounded afraid when he told me he was gay. I’d moved back to the East Coast, and we were both in our 30’s and we had gotten back in touch with each other after many years. My response to him was “Why should knowing this about you change the opinion I’ve had of you for all these years?” He remains a good, true friend, and one of the finest people I’ve met.
This may be a new thread in and of itself, but why is homosexuality such a big deal? I don’t expect a answer; I just wanted to vent some frustration.
CJ
Gee, there’s sure a lot of people interested in my opinion!
People don’t usually talk about the sex lives of their neighbors unless there seems to be something unusual about them. The uncomfortable feeling I get is probably because of the fact that this person has revealed to me very sensitive itimate details. It’s none of my business that Mockingbird happens to like to sleep with men any more than it’s my business that davebear enjoys engaging in oral sex. (Okay, I admit, it’s interesting, but discussing it on a message board and interacting with these people in person are two different things.)
I’d moved back to the East Coast, and we were both in our 30’s and we had gotten back in touch with each other after many years. My response to him was “Why should knowing this about you change the opinion I’ve had of you for all these years?” He remains a good, true friend, and one of the finest people I’ve met.