A passenger does not need to provide ID to a police officer!

[BottledBlondJeanie]

@grude

Was it Texas by chance?

No one ever believes me when I tell them in Texas cops ask passengers for ID routinely in uneventful traffic stops(so don’t think they do it when a zombie Osama Bin Laden was driving with dead hookers and heroin in the trunk.)

They will also ask for ID from all people who call in to report anything when they come out, and if there is anyone in the immediate area they ask them for ID too! Along with asking to talk to you inside, and then not so subtley casing your house and peeking around corners, they are on fishing expeditions 24/7. You can’t reliably take a walk without maybe having a cop ask for ID.

Not a bad area either, looking at census data it is solidly middle class.

I started not carrying ID on purpose when I knew I didn’t need it just because I was so sick of this garbage, I never ended up in jail because of it no matter how much the cop threatened all kinds of shit.

You are incorrect and overgeneralizing regarding asking passengers for ID in Texas. This might be true of certain small geographic areas of Texas, bu I’ve never heard of it. IIRC you’re from Houston? Never heard of it happening or seen it happen there.

[UltraVires]

@Cheesesteak

There’s a certain amount of give and take when dealing with the police. You’re observed going 6mph over the limit. Whatever punishment the State deems appropriate for that infraction is now the starting point of your interaction with the police. The officer has limited authority to punish you beyond that, he can inconvenience you, make you sit around and wait, that sort of thing. The officer does have the discretion to reduce your punishment, let you off with a warning, or a ticket for 4mph over the limit, etc.

Whether you get the benefit of his discretion may have a lot to do with you giving him the benefit of your discretion. If you want to stand on principle, you can give the officer the limit of what the law requires of you, and he can give you the limit what the law allows. Or, you can make his day a little easier by being forthcoming with information, and he can make your day a little easier as well.

You stated my point better than I did. In my 2 seconds of thought, I realized that whatever he was looking for, it wasn’t me, and that by presenting my ID, I could alleviate that confusion.

Maybe James Madison is rolling over in his grave because of this, but absent other thoughts, I think I did the right thing.

[lawbuff]

@jtgain

“Officer, may I ask why you asked to see my identification when I wasn’t even driving?” The cop said that thirty minutes before, a woman had called in a domestic violence complaint and that her alleged abuser left in a black sedan (our car description) and he thought that it might be us. I asked what would have happened if I would have refused to give my ID. He said that we would have been there much longer and gotten a real speeding ticket instead of a warning and have let an abuser get away on our conscience.

As you know, according to Hiibel, a person seized must present an ID/name ONLY if they “under investigation”.

What you could have done 1st is to say such as “Per Hiibel, am I under investigation to mandate I provide ID”?

If his answer was yes, then go ahead and show and tell and ask why later.

While ALL persons are seized in a motor vehicle stop, Brendlin, Hiibel still controls.

While a de minimus intrusion to ask is permitted at least under the federal constitution, I have read from other legal boards, a few states do not even permit asking a passenger, absent suspicion under Hiibel.

The same I have learned concerning the request for a pasenger to exit a car, while Maryland v. Wilson permits it, some states forbid it absent a legal reason.

[lawbuff]

@Cheesesteak

The officer has limited authority to punish you beyond that, he can inconvenience you, make you sit around and wait, that sort of thing.

The US SC has ruled a traffic stop MUST only take enough time to conduct business of the original purpose of the stop. Any further detainment MUST be supported by law.

[handsomeharry]

As to the speed, sometimes cops deliberately cut you a LOT of slack. I got busted for speeding once. Something like 85 or more, in a 60 mph zone. Cop said that he clocked me at 72, which saved me around a hundred bucks, fine-wise.
I can’t believe his radar was that bad, and I’m sure his speedometer in his vehicle had to be working. So, maybe the officer clocked the driver at a higher speed, and was cutting him some slack.

At any rate, to the main.

In my city, many years ago, in our hippie days, me and my friends were out cruising. Cop got my stuff, etc… Asked my passenger, Mr. Wiseguy, for his ID. Mr. W just smirked, literally smirked, I say! and said “I’d rather not.” Conversation was over for him. handsomeharry, big pussy that he is, bellowed at friend, “C’mon, Man!” Friend stuck to his guns, cop asked him why not, friend just repeated that he’d rather not. End of incident. So, I was impressed by my friend’s character, tho thinking he may have got me the ticket while the cop was disposed to issue a warning. (IIRC, I didn’t get a ticket.) At any rate, at least in our jurisdiction, passengers are not required to provide an ID.