A passenger does not need to provide ID to a police officer!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

But is it a good idea?

Yesterday, I was a passenger in a vehicle on a rural interstate. We noticed a state police car see us, hit his lights, and turn across the grass median to chase us. I looked at the driver and asked if he was speeding. Probably a few miles per hour over. He kept driving.

About a mile and a half later, here comes Smokey behind us with his lights flashing and we pull over. Very polite officer states that he clocked my friend travelling 76 mph in a 70mph zone. Asks my friend for license, registration, proof of insurance. He complies.

Takes one step towards his car and returns. Then he asks ME for my ID. I thought about refusing, knowing that he had no right to see it since I was merely a passenger. In those probably two seconds of delay, I wondered why a cop would cross the interstate for 7 mph over and ask a passenger for ID. I complied, having nothing to hide.

Fifteen minutes later, he returns with both of our information and a warning ticket for speeding. Told my friend to slow it down and to have a nice day. I chimed in:

“Officer, may I ask why you asked to see my identification when I wasn’t even driving?” The cop said that thirty minutes before, a woman had called in a domestic violence complaint and that her alleged abuser left in a black sedan (our car description) and he thought that it might be us. I asked what would have happened if I would have refused to give my ID. He said that we would have been there much longer and gotten a real speeding ticket instead of a warning and have let an abuser get away on our conscience.

Maybe he was bullshitting me, but maybe handing over an ID when there was no real reason not to was a good thing, and if it didn’t help catch an abuser, it might have gotten us a warning instead of a ticket.

Is this an example of asserting one’s rights not necessarily being the best thing when those rights are minimal?

2

As the saying goes, “you might beat the rap but you won’t beat the ride.”

While it’s true that a lot of police will ask for things they don’t have a direct right to, and you have the right to refuse, it almost never works out well for the citizen in question. Only if it’s an egregious violation by the cops will the courts rule in favor of an average citizen.

Of course, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. A cop asking for ID is pretty clearly on the “not worth it even if not necessary”. If he’d asked to search the car it would have been a different story.

3

I’d agree with yellow. While the staunch personal rights crowd might scream, a peace officer asking for ID when there are reasonable circumstances for doing so is part of the social contract.

I’ve never had a cop ask for passenger ID in perhaps 20 pullover incidents in my lifetime (in 2 or 3 of which I was the driver), even under questionable circumstances. I’d take the officer’s explanation at face value.

ETA: What’s a “warning ticket for speeding”? Do some jurisdictions actually write up a document for a warning? (All those I’ve encountered were merely verbal.)

4

The Coast Guard always asks for the ID of everyone on board when they do a routine “safety check” of our vessel. I don’t think people are required to carry ID’s while boating, (excpet maybe the operator) but we always hand them over.

5

Was it Texas by chance?:stuck_out_tongue:

No one ever believes me when I tell them in Texas cops ask passengers for ID routinely in uneventful traffic stops(so don’t think they do it when a zombie Osama Bin Laden was driving with dead hookers and heroin in the trunk.)

They will also ask for ID from all people who call in to report anything when they come out, and if there is anyone in the immediate area they ask them for ID too! Along with asking to talk to you inside, and then not so subtley casing your house and peeking around corners, they are on fishing expeditions 24/7. You can’t reliably take a walk without maybe having a cop ask for ID.

Not a bad area either, looking at census data it is solidly middle class.

I started not carrying ID on purpose when I knew I didn’t need it just because I was so sick of this garbage, I never ended up in jail because of it no matter how much the cop threatened all kinds of shit.

6

Some jurisdictions issue (or used to, no idea if they still do) warning tickets that don’t have a fine associated with them but go on your record. If you accumulate a few warnings other fines kick in.

7

Hmm, that’s still kind of shitty then. He got pulled over when it wouldn’t have otherwise and received a penalty for freakin’ 76? In a 70 zone? Lame.

8

Yep. I looked at it. It looks like a regular speeding ticket except it has a different caption and in bold letters at the bottom it says something to the affect that:

“You have been observed violating a traffic law. You are STONGLY CAUTIONED to avoid this behavior in the future. Further infractions may result in fines and/or points on your operator’s license.”

This is West Virginia..

9

I know someone who was in a similar situation when he and a friend were younger, except they weren’t speeding. The cop asked for both the driver’s and the passenger’s licenses, went back to his cruiser, and then returned them. He explained that two young men had just fled a crime scene in a car similar to theirs, but after getting a closer look at their car and their ID, they obviously weren’t the perps he was looking for. They left with no citation.

So I guess it happens. I generally don’t have a problem with showing a cop my ID - they do a damn risky job and I understand them wanting to know who they’re talking to. Cops who are overtly being bullies, well, that’s more problematic.

10

Read the OP, the driver was pulled over for going 76 in a 70mph zone; not going 106 in a 100mph zone. :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Not the same exact thing, but…

I was recently pulled over for running a stop sign. I saw the sign, but it was in a weird location, saw no traffic coming, and was 95% sure it wasn’t for me. I was wrong.

The cop who pulled me over asked for my registration (which I knew wasn’t in my glove compartment). He was very suspicious when I didn’t even try to look through the glove compartment, but was the nicest cop I ever ran into. I declined, originally, when he asked me to open the glove compartment, but he came back with a warning instead of a ticket.

He asked (extremely nicely) why I wouldn’t open the glove compartment (after he got back). I said something along the lines “I knew I didn’t have to, but you are being so nice it is making me feel like a giant ass.”

I opened the glove compartment and he clearly just wanted to make sure there wasn’t a gun there (there was a bunch of stuff there that could have still hidden drugs I suppose).

I felt like him giving me a warning when he didn’t have to was more than worth showing him my non incriminating glove compartment. I also really did feel like a jerk - no matter how much I knew it was in my rights to refuse.

He did even clearly state something along the lines “you are correct you don’t have to, I’m just asking that you do.”

12

Several years ago I was pulled over for speeding (and that time, just given a verbal warning, thank you occifer. :slight_smile: ) But I did have a passenger and the cop asked for both of our ID’s. She was very polite about it and it was in a high-crime area in one of the highest-crime cities in America where there are scads of people running about with outstanding warrants.

I was a bit surprised that she asked for my passenger’s ID as well, but given the location it made sense to me at the time. And cops are trained to be suspicious of everyone they encounter, and as long as the passenger has nothing to hide, no harm and no foul.

13

That reminds me of something that happened to me when I was a college student in Barcelona (late 1991 or thereabouts? Sounds about right).

It was a Saturday. Four of us were driving towards a classmate’s home in a small village; we were going to work on a class project (I think it was something like programming a mini-OS? Roughly that, I think).

Anyway, we are merrily going our way, driving down the highway, when we see that there is a control point manned by the Guardia Civil. They tells us to stop, one of the two guys there comes to our car, and as he walks towards us, I can see that he progressively stiffens and becomes more worried-looking. Says something to his colleague and, as he approaches our car, he asks for the IDs of everybody in the car in a rather strained-sounding voice.

We give our IDs to him and he goes away with them. The other guy stays near us. He has a machine-gun in his hands and, looking at him, I can see that he looks positively terrified… I have a closer look and I think that I see that he has the safety off – wtf?

After something like 15 minutes waiting there, the other guy comes back with all of our IDs and waves us away. We are rather puzzled, but prefer not to say anything and just go on our way.

A few kilometers later, it becomes somewhat evident that we are being followed. We try not to think about it, reach our destination, spend the day doing our class assignment, and go back to Barcelona.

The following day I found out why all that had happened.

At the time, the preparations for the 1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona were in full swing, and security was rather heightened. It transpired that a “commando” from the terrorist group E.T.A. was on the loose in Barcelona, under the leadership of a rather ruthless guy…

…The day after our experience, I saw a “wanted” poster for that guy and his underlings. The leader of the commando looked just like me, only with a harder expression on his face.

That very same night I shaved my beard and kept it shaven afterwards until relatively recently :stuck_out_tongue:

I can sort of imagine what was going through the heads of those two agents… “Holy shit holy shit holy shit it’s HIM what do we do what do we do… The guys that are going with him don’t look like his usual underlings, maybe he is recruiting… Let’s keep calm and check their IDs first; you keep an eye and if they do anything suspicious blast them away”.

After a long check they must have told him in the central that my name was not any kind of known alias for that guy, but must have arranged to have somebody follow us later on, just in case.

In retrospect, a rather harrowing experience (after the fact for myself, at the time for those two civil guards :P)

14

the rights crowd shouldn’t scream simply because an officer asks for ID. Cops can ask for all kinds of stuff, and you’re free to refuse. However, when the cop inflicteds adverse legal consequences upon you for your refusal to provide said ID, that’s a problem.

It happens. I got one in Ohio a few years back for doing about 78 in a 65. I was extremely well-behaved during the stop (I strongly recommend following this guide on how to behave during a traffic stop), and after surrendering my driver’s license and a credit card, the cop came back a few minutes later with a written warning and no fine.

15

May I make some meta-comments? I’ve spent most of my life assuming the best about people until proven wrong. (Yes, I realize my assumption is often mistaken.) In a perfect world, police would be benign to the law-abiding, and it might not occur to one to refuse a request for ID. As OP explained, in his case the policeman was indeed working toward apprehending a criminal.

I really do wonder why people are so eager to “assert their rights” in such situations. Are you assuming the police are malicious? Or, like the man who buys a gun or refuses to change seats in a crowded theater, do you consider refusing to show ID “just because you can” ?

Some police are assholes – I’ve some encounters of my own as evidence – but part of the reason for poor police behavior is the antagonism they get from the very people they’re trying to protect.

16

If I’m not driving, I often just carry cash. Ask me for ID and I don’t have any.

17

I don’t assume the police are malicious, but as someone who was falsely accused by a federal agency of something i didn’t do in the past - and was let go after passing three polygraphs - I am acutely aware of the risks of cooperating with the police. You don’t always know what they are doing/after when they approach you.

Case in point - I was at heathrow - and in line for my flight. Some sort of official looking uniformed person came and said to those in line “tickets out” - he then visually scanned everyone’s tickets - very quickly - went past me by one person - did a double take - looked at my ticket again - and said “you - follow me.”

He took me to a back area. I had no clue whatsoever was going on.

He asked “do you have everything on you that belongs to you?”. This sounded very similar to shows i have seen/ cases i have read - where the police ask somewhen if a bag belongs to them so they can search it if the person says no. I explained that I had checked one bag - and my carry on belonged to me. He then asked if I had my phone on me. I said yes. He asked if I was sure. I produced the phone (at this point I was getting worried).

He pulled out a phone with a printed travel itinerary. The travel itinerary I had left at security - and someone had left the phone there. He assumed the phone might belong to the person who left the itinerary - and was just trying to return it to me. It did scare the crap out of me - even though I knew I hadn’t done anything - I really was worried whatever needed to be cleared up was going to cause me to miss my flight.

18

I suppose it depends on the circumstances. Maybe I’m in a hurry and don’t feel like answering a ton of questions. Maybe the answers would embarrass me. Maybe, like Michael Righi (see my previous post), I’m standing on principle so as to remind people - authority figures and civilians alike - that these rights exist.

How much intrusion are you willing to volunteer for?

-will you show your ID when asked, even if you’re not driving a car?
-will you answer all questions posed by a cop, no matter how intimate?
-will you consent to a vehicle search, even without a warrant or probable cause?
-will you consent to a search of your home without a warrant or probably cause?

19

I don’t think I would consent to #2 through 4. I believe that a state patrolman is aware that a passenger doesn’t have to produce ID. He told me so and told me the consequences if I didn’t.

It seems to me to be a two way street. Generally if you are having an interaction with police, they have powers to do a lot of things. My friend WAS speeding; our vehicle did match the description of a criminal. He probably could have searched the vehicle if he wanted.

Likewise, I could have refused to produce ID, asserted my right to remain silent, etc.

But I didn’t and he didn’t, and it worked out better for us (at least my friend who didn’t get a ticket). I think the strict rule of “never talk to a police officer” is overstated.

20

There’s a certain amount of give and take when dealing with the police. You’re observed going 6mph over the limit. Whatever punishment the State deems appropriate for that infraction is now the starting point of your interaction with the police. The officer has limited authority to punish you beyond that, he can inconvenience you, make you sit around and wait, that sort of thing. The officer does have the discretion to reduce your punishment, let you off with a warning, or a ticket for 4mph over the limit, etc.

Whether you get the benefit of his discretion may have a lot to do with you giving him the benefit of your discretion. If you want to stand on principle, you can give the officer the limit of what the law requires of you, and he can give you the limit what the law allows. Or, you can make his day a little easier by being forthcoming with information, and he can make your day a little easier as well.