A Pitting of the good Christians of the American Family Association

The BBQ Pit
1

Before getting to the Pitting proper, I wish to emphasize that the good folk of the American Family Association consider their organization to be a very specifically Christian organization. They have a Statement of Faith on their website that reads as follows:

[QUOTE=AFA]
Statement of Faith

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons:  Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.
We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.
We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.
We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost;  they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.
We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

[/QUOTE]

I’m so glad we have Christians like those at the AFA to show us the true meaning of the Gospel message. Per (ick) Breitbart.com:

[QUOTE=Breitbart.com]
The American Family Association, another group with millions of members, has issued alerts calling on the American people to rise up against their members of Congress if they vote for Boehner’s bill. AFA said in an alert sent out late Wednesday:

[QUOTE=AFA]
House Republicans are considering passing a bill this week that would give President Obama more money, but would do absolutely nothing to block his plan to extend amnesty to another 5 or 6 million illegal aliens with another wholly illegal executive order.

Due to the president's irresponsible policies, our border is being overrun by illegal aliens who have no legal right to live or work in this country. In state after state and community after community, they are overwhelming relief services, welfare budgets, and law enforcement resources, and taking jobs that rightfully belong to American citizens. This tide of illegal immigration threatens our health, our public safety, and our national security. It’s time for this dangerous pattern to stop.

[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]
I remember that great passage in the second chapter of the Gospel of John where Jesus made a whip of cords and drove the foreign children from the Temple. And I also remember, in the tenth chapter of Luke, where Jesus told a man to love his neighbor as himself, and the man replied, “And who is my neighbor?” To which Jesus responded, “definitely not them furriner kids. Send them back to whatever hellhole they came from.”

Yep, thanks, AFA, for being a true Christian witness.

2

This whole thing is just plain horrible. My first instinct, of course, is to find some way to let those kids stay. But if we do that…even if it just looks like we’re doing that!..their desperate moms and dads back home will send more! Hell, I’d probably do the same thing in their shoes! And the fucking monsters who are feeding on this will just grow fatter!

Its easy enough to do the right thing when there is a right thing. But what the hell do we do when there* isn’t*?

3

Also Exodus 22:21: Thou shalt oppress and kick out foreigners, because they have no right to be among you.

Remember, [as Jesus said](Matthew - The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah - Bible Gateway 25:31-46&version=NIV), “Whatever you did for one of the least of these white, American brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”

4

Here’s a great quote that I find myself paraphrasing at church on a regular basis.
[QUOTE=John Fugelsang]
If you don’t want your tax dollars to help the poor, then stop saying you want a country based on Christian values. Because you don’t.
[/QUOTE]
I can’t think of what Christian or family value they are promoting with this.

5

“Oh, Maria! Now that we know our children are safe, let us make more children to send off on another dangerous journey to the United States!”

6

Didn’t you just announce a while back that you avoid reading my posts? I’m thinking that’s a pretty good idea.

7

You mean the coyotes, or who?

8

Matthew 19:14: Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

But not the kingdom of the US apparently.

9

Can you clarify?

It seems to me you’re suggesting that a true Christian witness has no choice but to favor an unchecked immigration policy, but that can’t be what you’re saying.

So what positions may a true Christian witness permissibly take with respect to immigration, in your view?

10

All God’s children have an equal right to live in the USA, (God’s country).

11

I agree. This is why we should forcibly move every human in the world to the USA. It’s what God wants.

12

Yeah, this does look like a good time to see what the Bible says:

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:33-34

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, Matthew 25:35

“You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Exodus 22:21

“Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts. Malachi 3:5

“‘Cursed be anyone who perverts the justice due to the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ Deuteronomy 27:19

“Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.” Zechariah 7:9-10

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2

“For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever. Jeremiah 7:5-7

You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. Ezekiel 47:22

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Leviticus 25:35

“And you shall make response before the Lord your God, ‘A wandering Aramean was my father. And he went down into Egypt and sojourned there, few in number, and there he became a nation, great, mighty, and populous. Deuteronomy 26:5

He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing. Deuteronomy 10:18

For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Matthew 5:46-47

Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy. Proverbs 31:8-9

But Ruth said, “Do not urge me to leave you or to return from following you. For where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Ruth 1:16

And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:30-31

Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. Genesis 12:1

And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.” Luke 13:29

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Philippians 3:20

And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Matthew 5:40-42

And the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth and said, “O Lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” Genesis 18:1-8

And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt Matthew 2:14

By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion. On the willows there we hung up our lyres. For there our captors required of us songs, and our tormentors, mirth, saying, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!” How shall we sing the Lord’s song in a foreign land? If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its skill! Psalm 137:1-9

The native people showed us unusual kindness, for they kindled a fire and welcomed us all, because it had begun to rain and was cold. Acts 28:2

“Give counsel; grant justice; make your shade like night at the height of noon; shelter the outcasts; do not reveal the fugitive; let the outcasts of Moab sojourn among you; be a shelter to them from the destroyer. When the oppressor is no more, and destruction has ceased, and he who tramples underfoot has vanished from the land, Isaiah 16:3-4

“Say to the people of Israel, ‘Appoint the cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, Joshua 20:2

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? James 2:1-4
The clear conclusion is that the American Family Association is a false organization. They promote Christianity when it serves their purposes (and when it attracts donations), but in fact they exist for political purposes and not religious ones.

If the courts can determine the sincerity of religious belief of a corporation like Hobby Lobby, likewise they ought to be able to determine the clear insincerity of an organization like the American Family Association, for the purpose of stripping them of their tax exempt status. There are hundreds or thousands of organizations just like this, all over the country, sucking off the rest of us like a bunch of leeches or parasites to get their tax exemption for nothing more than mouthing a few words. America can’t bear all these freeloaders any longer. It. Has. To. Stop.

Strip the American Family Association of their tax-exempt status immediately!

13

You know, you could have probably just whittled that thing down to the last three paragraphs and have still made your point.

14

See post #12 – the Bible does not necessarily favor an “unchecked immigration policy,” but OTOH it does not allow Christians to turn away from those in desperate need.

15

For myself (not a Christian): immigration is one thing, refugees are another. These children are refugees.

16

They are a 501(c)(3) organization. That’s not a status that turns on sincerity of religious belief.

17

What are the key factors that distinguish an immigrant from a refugee?

18

I’m not a Christian, so am I allowed to say that unchecked immigration of tens of thousands of children (or of anyone else) is not good policy?

I mean, I think that the AFA are jerks for trying to conform government policy to religious belief. But that doesn’t mean that every policy they espouse is automatically 100% wrong. You’ll win on the percentages if you bet that way, but there will be times when you would lose.

I don’t pretend to have a solution for this particular crisis; the US could probably absorb the illegally-immigrated children it already has, if it were decided to keep them. But I agree with elucidator that such a policy would only encourage more of the same. It’s a very difficult situation, and the AFA’s simplistic answer to illegal immigration, which seems to be mostly to demonize the President, makes no sense at all.

But, unchecked immigration is probably not a good policy, religious beliefs notwithstanding.

19

I have the impression that Try2B is moved to extreme sarcasm by the horror of the situation. Nonetheless, your clarification of the legalistic details is, no doubt, appreciated by such people as give a fuck about that.

20

The thing is that if you declare that the Bible is your infallible and absolute direction in life, you can’t then turn around and pick and choose the parts you follow. You can’t say that you’re stoning homosexuals because the Bible commands you to do so and then say that you’re not going to give away all your worldly goods to feed and shelter the poor because that part of the Bible is just a suggestion. You either live the Bible or you don’t.