Inspired by this thread.
What countries, apart from the USA, have a Pledge of Allegiance?
What should one do in the situation descibed in that thread (students reciting the Pledge) if he/she is not a non-US citizen? Do they get to sing/say something else?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I was a kid living in Texas in the early 1970s, I had to say the pledge too. I’m British.
I believe it would be unconscionable to require a non-US citizen to recite the pledge of allegiance. My youngest son (an Austraian citizen) spent 2 years in middle school and high school in the US. I talked about it with him, and I believe that he was standing for the pladge, but not saying it with the others. That is the correct behavior: to politely recognise the importance of the ceremony for others, bt not to take part in it yourself.
I also think it is rather absurd. Australian school kids don’t pledge allegiance to the Queen of Australia or to the Commonwealth of Australia, and I don’t thionk they are any less patriotic than American school kids.
My spent a year in Illinois as a high school exchange student. He was told that the proper form when everybody else was saluting and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance was to stand, keep a respectful silence, not salute and not recite the pledge, which seems right.
I’m not aware of any other country which observes a similar ritual in a widespread way, and in most countries I am familiare with the idea would be greeted with a degree of derision. But horses for courses, I guess.
My son had some sort of Canadian pledge or oath thing that they said at his school while he was in Grade 1 (3 years ago). They said it after singing “O Canada”.
I’m not Canadian myself but none of the other parents I spoke to had ever heard of it either. They seemed to think it was a little odd and Americanish, but not a big deal.
I had to at school. State school, NSW, 1970s:
I honour my country. I serve my Queen. I salute the flag (I think. I forget now).
It depends on the school principal, I think.
Nevertheless, I have noticed an increase in school-based patriotism at my son’s school compared to when I went to school. I would never have known the Beneath our radiant Southern Cross bit of the anthem in a million years, yet my six year-old belts it out with gusto. We used to just do the short version. Lots more flags about the place too.
Other than all that, the only time an adult has to pledge allegiance formally is upon acquiring citizenship. As I got mine at birth, I’ve never done it.
Pledge of Commitment
Form of Pledge No. 1
From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey.
Form of Pledge No. 2
From this time forward, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey.
As you can see, mention of God is optional. Reference to the Queen was dropped eleven years ago. Once a new citizen has taken the Pledge, he or she can safely forget about it for the rest of their lives.
I beieve the original pledge stance was a Roman salute (now more recognizable as a Nazi salute) which was dropped in favor of the hand-over-heart stance when the Nazi “heil” took off. This suggests to me there may have been a Roman Empire precusror. I’ve seen enough detailed Roman history on these boards that I’m sure a Doper will come along to give us the SD on whatever Roman pledge may have existed shorty…
I have a song from New Zealand in the 60s in which the singer underlines his tough guy juvenile delinquency by pointing out (among other things) that he “doesn’t stand for the Queen,” and the liner notes to the disc state there was some ceremony that sounds a bit like the pledge in that part of the world in public places like movie theaters. Again, I imagine someone will come along soon to dish out the SD on that.
An ex-girlfriend of mine grew up in Siberia and used to tell me about the crazy commie non-volunteer scout group she was in during her school years. Pledges a-plenty there. I wouldn’t be surprised if the modern former Soviet republics have retained altered nationalist traditions considering how long that was a part of school life.
I’ve seen schoolchidren in Thailand, Guatemala and Peru doing very pledge-like (if not outright militaristic) activities at the start of the school day. I expect that in large parts of the world, this sort of thing is common.
In my observation as an American public school student for 12 years in the 70s and 80s, there’s pretty widespread derision of the pledge here too among regular students. Unless there was a teacher right next to you, people pretty much made up their own words or said it funny voices and/or with dripping sarcasm. I can’t imagine any of this is making kids better citizens.
I’ve never heard of a pledge in Canadian schools, so I’m a bit surprised by vd’s experience.
G’lord, I’d almost forgotten about that. It was – and I suppose still is – the custom to stand when the National Anthem is played (stand “for the Queen”). The difference between then and now is that the anthem was played at the end of a day’s programme of films, after a theatrical performance and even at the close of television programming on the BBC. In the 50s “everyone” stood, yes even when the telly closed down (allegedly). By the time I remember it being done it was the custom to bolt out of the cinema or shut the telly off before it started. So, the standing was by default – no remote control so you had to leap for the knob on the tv before the drum roll began.
When the anthem is played at sport’s grounds, before cup finals and so on the teams stand, do the supporters?
I remember “God save the Queen” being played at picture theatres up until I was 13(?), but in New Zealand, it was played before the programme, just as the lights went down. Not much chance of missing it unless you were late, and then you’d have to wait until it was finished before you were led to a seat by the usher, waving her little torch on the floor in her ‘follow me’ style.
I suppose it was played at the end of TV programming for the day, but I only remember “God Defend New Zealand” being used for that. That dates it as being later than the playing of “The Queen” at movie theatres. Later still, a Maori song, “Hine e hine” was used by at least one network, and now they don’t seem to close down at all.
As for public pledges, at school or otherwise, I can’t think of any done except at citizenship ceremonies, as shown at Department of Internal Affairs
Oath of Allegiance
I (your name) swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of New Zealand, Her heirs and successors according to the law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of New Zealand and fulfil my duties as a New Zealand citizen. So help me God.
Affirmation of Allegiance
I (your name) solemnly and sincerely affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of New Zealand, Her heirs and successors according to the law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of New Zealand and fulfil my duties as a New Zealand citizen.
Note that there is nothing about the flag or the country; you are swearing an oath to the head of state.
KF
We’re called “fans” in these parts 
, and I’d say that usually 99% of people usually do, that might drop a little at an ill-attended baseball game where you have scattered people who don’t have the same peer pressure. Not standing for the national anthem generally puts you in league with Stalin, Osama bin Laden and mother-rapers. :rolleyes: I don’t mind people doing this as a genuine patriotic display, but the reactions to people not doing it are sometimes a bit much.
I don’t imagine that Lincoln, Franklin, etc. ever did much of this sort of thing.
You’re generally also supposed to remove your hat & many people cover their hearts, although I’ve run on the assumption that this hand-over-heart thing for the anthem was a carry over from the pledge which people are confused over, and seems to be optional. Watch the upcoming World Series games (I’m assuming interational TV might cover this), where the pre-game rituals hold enough for several anthropology theses, and you’re likely to see the players holding their caps over their hearts for the duration of the anthem, with close-ups of many players to assure you that they love America/aren’t father-rapers and mother-stabbers, etc. It’s about as archetypical an American image as you’ll see. Um… even though some of those players may be Domincan or Japanese these days .
Reminds me of an old joke:
What are the last two words of the national anthem?
“Play ball!”
Why not let the kid do whatever is most comfortable? Pledge or quiet. It’s ceremonial, not a real, binding oath anyway.
Peace,
mangeorge