Well, Sunday school teachers say lots of things and the Bible contains quite a bit of moralistic literature.
It seems to me to be all hypothetical in any case, heaven and hell being human inventions, and I like my idea better.
Well, it seems clear to me that describing what the afterlife is like was not Jesus’s main point and intention in telling the story of the rich man and Lazarus; so I don’t think that’s a necessary conclusion.
Huh. What if Heaven and Hell are the same place, and it’s just your perception that determines whether you’re in paradise or not? I recall several examples from my youth of being in a place or situation that was really not that bad, but since I had previously decided that I didn’t want to be there, I was miserable. Being confronted by God for all eternity, knowing that you don’t live up to the standard, and refusing to change your ways. You’d be pretty miserable, no? Like a five-year-old at a family reunion.
Hmm.
This again is reminiscent of the judgement of Gerontius in the poem I mentioned above (written by Cardinal Newman and hence on sound Catholic theological ground, though IANAC). Gerontius experiences the undiluted presence of God for a single instant and is at once torn between two equally powerful desires: to remain in the presence of God for eternity, and to be removed infinitely far from Him to be spared the unbearable awareness of his own filthy state. Accordingly, he is taken off to Purgatory to have the latter urge washed out of him so that he can experience the former without hindrance.
By this model - and I doubt that any human model can do justice to the truth - the hell-bound one would experience nothing but horror, and Purgatory would be useless since there would be nothing left once his repugnance for God had been cleansed away; and the heaven-bound one would experience only joy.
Back to Lewis again-- in The Last Battle, people of different beliefs found themselves in a stable; those who were “true believers” discovered that it was the gateway to Paradise, while those who were not were unable to see anything beyond the stable-- but they were both in the same place.
So if Bob the good brother and Tom the bad brother both die, wouldn’t it be possible for Bob and Tom to be in the same place, but for Bob to be conscious of the presence of God (i.e. in Heaven, basking in His glory, blah blah) and Tom to be unable to perceive God (i.e. in Hell, which I’ve heard defined as being eternally separated from the Divine)? The two would be able to interact with each other but Bob would be getting his reward while Tom was not. Not to mention, if you were in a place where people were able to have a really awesome experience from which YOU were shut out*, wouldn’t that be quite a punishment?
Corrvin
*I seem to remember a certain party where everyone but me was quite inebriated, but that’s another story
I’ve heard over and over and over that we can’t judge God’s actions or purposes by our standards.
They are the only standards we’ve got. If you cannot judge your god, how can you deem her/him worthy of worship at all?
I agree with you but that’s not how I read the extant message about the matter.
I use my standards and have already decided.
Maybe it could be an illusion - like a hologram of Tom that appears to Bob to give him guidance, comfort and conversation. To Bob, this is all real enough and he’s happy with the situation; but as for the real Tom; he’s being roasted all the way back to Tim-buck-too.