A question about the DC Metro system

In My Humble Opinion
1

While I’m asking about the DC Metro (subway) system, it’s possible that what I describe will be familiar to folks who use other, similar transport, so feel free to chime in with your opinion. Two things to know about the Metro that are relevant to this thread.

First, during rush hours, the Red Line runs trains with two different sets of destinations. The first type has a train going all the way to the end of the line (either Glenmont or Shady Grove, depending on which direction it’s going), and the second type involves “turn-backs” where the train only goes as far as Silver Spring (three stops short of Glenmont) or to Grosvenor (four stops short of Shady Grove) and then heading back the other direction. The fact that these turn-backs exist at all are the subject of some controversy, locally.

The second thing to know is that Metro is currently in a lengthy period of transitioning between older and newer types of trains. There’s a lot of of detail to that, but the important thing to know for this thread is that a train will either have six cars or eight cars for riders.

When I leave work every day, I’m heading to the end of the line (Glenmont). That means, of course, that I can’t take the train that only goes as far as Silver Spring. People heading to Silver Spring or points closer to downtown can take either train. So here’s my problem: far more often than not, the length of trains alternates so that the trains going to Silver Spring are eight cars long, and the trains going to Glenmont are six cars long.

This strikes me (and others) as extraordinarily backwards. As you might imagine, more people ride the Glenmont train because at least some of us HAVE to be on that train. So, inevitably, you wind up with trains to Silver Spring that are half-empty (more room with fewer people), and trains to Glenmont that are over-crowded, sometimes to the point that Glenmont-bound riders can’t squeeze in and have to wait for the next Glenmont train (two trains later) to get home.

I admit that I haven’t taken notes so that I have true data on this, but it feels like more than confirmation bias. Is this just random on WMATA’s part? Or are they intentionally providing shorter trains to Glenmont based on some theory that it’s more beneficial to operate that way? And if so, what IS the benefit that I’m not seeing by having the shorter train cover the longer distance?

2

Maybe they need more trains going the other way sometimes? I never noticed the ones stopping at Silver Spring being shorter. I’ve wondered the same thing even though, as someone who is equidistant from SS and Takoma, it doesn’t affect me. I don’t know why they’d need to get more people to Bethesda\Rockville than SS/Wheaton, though.

3

My guess: it takes more energy (and thus costs more) to take a longer train to the ends.

Assuming that is in fact what they’re doing. I don’t go out that far very often and cannot verify.

4

Couldn’t you take a half-empty train to Silver Spring and transfer there to a Glenmont train?

You would at least get a seat for most of the trip and the Glenmont train would have partially emptied out by the time it reaches Silver Spring. Even if it doesn’t empty out, at least you would have had a seat as far as Silver Spring.

5

If it’s like most places during evening rush hour, most riders are boarding the train downtown and going home to the suburbs. So everybody gets on downtown somewhere, and then some percentage of them get off at each stop as the train gets farther and farther out of town. The closer you are to the center of the system, the more capacity they need; 50,000 people-per-hour from Metro Center to Union Station, 40,000 from Union Station to Brentwood, 30,000 from Brentwood to Takoma, etc. (Or whatever the real numbers are.) And the same thing is probably happening on the other end of the line; Dupont, Van Ness, Bethesda, and so on. If they’re turning around the longer trains at Glenmont, it’s probably to get them back where they’re needed as soon as possible. Every empty seat going out to Glenmont is a waste of capacity. If they have a surplus of trains, that’s no problem; but if some trains are larger than others then it makes sense to use them as much as you can on the busiest part of the system.

Exactly what I was going to suggest.

6

Yes, and I do sometimes, though I prefer to be lazy and only take one train.

I appreciate that, but I’m seeking Metro’ s logic rather than a solution to my personal inconvenience.

7

I assuming you meant Silver Spring in the first part of your quote, and I think your explanation makes some sense. But if you reversed where the short trains are going, aren’t you then better off having (made up numbers to follow) 90% full trains going to Silver Spring and 80% full trains going to Glenmont than you are having 60% full trains going to Silver Spring and 100%+ full trains going to Glenmont?

One thing I don’t know, though, is what happens to the trains I’m describing on the other end. I don’t know if there is greater ridership on the western end of the line (Grosvenor/Shady Grove) than on the Silver Spring/Glenmont side. Perhaps the eight-car trains that “turn around” at Silver Spring are then becoming eight-car trains all the way to Shady Grove, while the six-car trains heading to Glenmont become six-car trains to Grosvenor. The issue could be about favoring capacity to the western side.

8

It’s because people who live in Bethesda are better than you, quit trying to take their nice empty trains away you outside-of-the-beltway scum.

Serious answer, maybe it has something to do with getting people to transfer stations more efficiently. Since the Shady Grove train can presumably do more trips, maybe the benefit of the 8 cars isn’t for the Maryland stops, but to get more people to Metro Center and Chinatown, and after those 2 stops the extra cars are just along for the ride.

9

:smiley:

I’m only thinking about the evening commute, when people are being shuttled away from those stops (and Union Station). I don’t actually know whether the same issue happens in the morning because I’m boarding at the end of the line, and I don’t pay any attention to what the train’s final destination is since it doesn’t impact me getting to downtown.

As an aside, as soon as I’d submitted my last post, I heard on NPR that Metro is planning to shut down part of my side of the Red Line for 45 FREAKIN’ DAYS this summer, meaning I’ll be back to coming in via the Shady Grove side. Back2Good, indeed.

10

Up at the Grosvenor/Shady Grove end, I notice that there aren’t that many of us going those last four stops; the crowd on the train has thinned out pretty well by the time they get to Grosvenor.

Unless the weather is horrible, I’d rather sit and wait at Grosvenor than whatever I started at underground in the city, so I can observe that there are a) only a handful of other similar people remaining on the platform waiting for the Shady Grove train; b) not that many people on the Shady Grove train when we get on it–never any trouble getting a seat; c) even that bunch diminishes considerably at Twinbrook. There’s not a lot of reason to send a long nearly empty train all the way out to the end of the line, which is quite a way out, when there are more people getting off at the closer-in stations with a quicker turn-around time.

11

I wondered about this. The only times I’ve ridden to and from Shady Grove have been during shut downs on the other side. The last four stops have always seemed pretty busy to me, but I didn’t know if that was normal, or just because a lot of people were doing the same thing I was doing (driving to Shady Grove as an alternative to coming in from the Glenmont side). Sounds like it’s the latter.

12

In fact it’s highly likely that enough people will have gotten off that you can then switch at Silver Spring and get a seat.

I imagine it’s more than confirmation bias - they won’t run the 8-car train the whole way out if they don’t have the demand.

I don’t ride the Red Line; we’re on the Blue Line ourselves. Depending on where I’m coming from I could either take the Yellow and transfer in Virginia, or take the Blue all the way around. Blue all the way around will usually mean standing longer; Yellow will mean standing a short time, but I’ve pretty much always gotten a seat at the point the two lines briefly converge.

Another option is to take the train a couple stops in the wrong direction… far enough that you’d be able to get a seat on the train of your choice going in the correct direction. As I’m often boarding at Farragut West (DC folks know what a clusterf*ck that one is), there is pretty much no way in HELL I’d get a seat on a blue train there if I’m travelling during rush hour. Not being fond of sardines (eating OR being), I’d rather invest 15 minutes and take a train 4-5 stops the other way, then catch my Blue train and get a seat and enjoy the ride home in something like tolerable conditions.

13

Fellow Glenmont rider here. I just have to say “AGAIN?!” At least this time I can just transfer at Fort Totten instead of needing to take MARC.