Nzinga,Seated, I find your point-of-view interesting, as it contrasts so much from mine.
I do think NYC is a different world, in a lot of respects. Did you ever see that movie Crooklyn? If so, remember how negatively Aunt Song reacted to Troy’s braids and instantly ran for the hot comb? That’s how a lot of folks are in the South and in the Midwest, especially in the suburbs and rural areas. That mentality is less common nowadays, but most of us are dealing with the legacy of that self-hatred. My mother has locs down her back, but even she still fusses over my hair. For years, she would suggest a “light” perm to smooth down the edges…totally ignoring the fact that my edges are not curly, not wavy, but STRAIGHT. It was like she was reciting a script engraved in her brain from years of brainwashing.
I recently learned from an all-knowing sister of mine that my father was attracted to my mother’s light skin and her straight hair, only to later find out that her straight hair was really a hair piece disguising a headful of African curls. Being a color-struck man with a family full of pale-skinned, good-haired women, he was highly disappointed. But he only says nice things about my hair. I think it’s because it’s not as nappy as he feared it would be.
But I do think times are a-changing. When my two sisters and I were growing up, we (along with our mother) all had straightened hair. And now we, along with my sister’s daughters, all have the naps and kinks that the good lord gave us. Our relatives (who all live in the Midwest) and our socially conservative father may not approve, but we don’t care.
See Hippy Hollow’s post above. I don’t think it’s okay, and personally I would no sooner say such a thing than I would jokingly call a black person a nigger. To me even witnessing a white person doing so would bring a reflexive angry reaction, even though I would probably swallow it: and I’m white, so I can only imagine how much worse it would be if I had kinky hair and had it used against me growing up. Your friends might be cool about it – they might, like Nzinga, have no personal association with it as a negative – but you might also want to consider the possibility that they’re willing to forgive it but might be a little hurt inside because of childhood association.
As for you looking “half black” – and there’s no such thing as being half black, because “black” is a political designation to begin with – and actually having to deal with kinky hair making it better…well, you have the hair, but you don’t have people classifying you as subhuman because of it, so you don’t really have the experience to reclaim “nappy”. In fact, I detect the undercurrent of negativity about kinky hair that tends to accompany white people who have it – just as some black women admire “good hair” as being straight hair, some white women seem to feel cursed by their kinky hair.
I hope you will take this as just a direct answer to your questions, not a condemnation of you for asking them or doubting or any of that. I know you’re coming from a kind, sincere place, so don’t let my total inability to be anything but caustic even when I’m trying not to give you the wrong impression.
And the irony of ironies is that, like Omega’s dad, both of our parents sported afros back in the day! It was like as soon as James Brown’s song quit getting airplay, black people started hating their natural hair again.
You don’t know black woman that don’t wear their hair natural that appreciate natural hair? Most of my friends fall into this catagory, and everyone of my friends would tell me, “You daughter got her hair wet in that tub, and now it is all nappy. I told her you were gonna kill her! It was brushed and combed so pretty too.”
Is this not a common kind of thing you might hear too? I really am getting a sinking feeling about how far apart the black American community is on these sort of issues. I mean, I know we are all different, but I thought our hair was one of those universal things we all understood about eachother in the sisterhood.
My ears really only perk up when the word is used gratitiously. If your hair fits the description, go ahead.
But if you’re tempted to equate it to “ugly” or “unkempt”, I wouldn’t use it. Natural hairstyles are being embraced and happy-to-be-nappiness is part and parcel of this movement. I once had a friend (white) who often used “nappy hair” as a synonym for “messy hair”. Although I didn’t tell her so (because she was very anti-PC), it kinda hurt my feelings.
Sounds like they are saying nappy is a bad state of being, here. Or am I misreading it?
I know straighties who appreciate natural hair, yes. But I don’t know anyone who doesn’t use “nappy” in a non-negative way, except people who wear their hair natural.
Your perspective is probably as foreign to me as mine is to you! Trust me, I’m the last person to jump on the “let’s talk about how psychologically screwed-up black people are” train that sometimes travels on this board, but when it comes to hair, I would be lying if I said black folks don’t have issues to work through. I wish every place was like NYC, but it is not.
If me and mistaken-for-white-girl-in-this-very-thread monstro have experienced the madness (we’re twin sisters, if you didn’t know this already), you can be darn tootin’ that we aren’t exceptions to the rule. There are entire message boards dedicated to this subject. When you get some time, you should check them out.
Yes, I do. I know some women who are envious of folks like us who wear their hair natural and would like to do it themselves, but they are scared.
My older sister battled with this for awhile. She’s now natural (wearing twists) but for years she was envious of face and me because we could “get away with it” while she felt she could not, due to her tighter, harder to manage curls. For her, it was just a matter of finding a hairstyle that works for her.
(She deals with even more pressure to perm that we do because her in-laws are wavy-haired Haitians. Folks in the Caribbean are even more “hair struck” than AAs. Fortunately, her husband is pretty chill. Must be because he was raised in NYC )
See, I’ve never heard “nappy” used in that way among people who embrace natural hair. Learn something new everyday.
Your friends and you seem to be pretty Afro-centric (like folks I’d like to hang out with, for real ), but I don’t think your experience is very representative of the black community.
I was going to start a thread on this topic, but I think it is wholey unnecessary. Clearly, my experience is not representative of the usual Black American experience. I wonder if it is my own outlook that colors my experience.
I do want to stress, one more time, for the record, that I know that black people struggle with being accepting of their own hair. I know about being “color struck” and such. It is just the concepts that nappy and kinky is considered the same to Black Americans that genuinely surprises me.
Also, the idea that many blacks don’t find lots of thick natural hair beautiful. That is not my experience.
Yes! But they aren’t saying kinky hair is bad. They think it is beautiful, though they have wigs, weaves, and whatnot.
I used to think that everyone that had a weave thought kinky hair was bad. I know that is not true now. Many of my friends helped debunk this for me. There is more to black hair than “everyone wants silky hair accept afrocentric types that have fros”.
Take for instance, white girls in my neighborhood that wear weave so that their hair will “take a cornbraid” properly. Their black friends will tell them, “Girl, that stringy stuff aint gonna take no braid. You need the kinkier weave”. No one else has this kind of thing going on in their neighborhood? These black girls have weaves, and relaxers, and all that. But they don’t consider all kinky hair “nappy”. In fact, a common kind of braiding weave in our community is called “Kinky” or “extra Kinky”
And I know for a fact that natural hair is a hot issue with blacks. I am not as naive as I am coming off, I am afraid. I think I am surprised that nappy and kinky is the same thing to black people. I accept it, based on this conversation, but it is hard for me to wrap my head around, yet.
Didn’t know you two were twins. That is cool.
(I just figure I’m so awesome everyone wants me to be whatever they are. I’m too fair skinned to be black, but I can meet y’all halfway!)
I have been known to complain about my nappy-ass hair, mostly when it eats combs. I react like a vampire shown a cross when someone suggests straightening it, though. :eek:
Ehh. I mostly go out of my way to be inoffensive. If I do offend someone I apologize and explain that I never intended to. AFAIK I’ve never offended anyone by complaining about my own hair…
Word. I live in Boston and most of my friends are grad students, profs, and are fairly down, so I get where Nzinga is coming from. I know plenty of preppy Black folks who loved my locks, but they themselves would never grow them. Hell, one of my frat brothers from back home kept asking me when I would cut 'em, and wanted to buy me a beer when I did. :mad:
Well, if your hair is nappy, I guess I don’t see how that would be a problem. I wouldn’t use it referring to someone else’s, that’s all.
Personally, I’m not one to snap when I hear “nappy” from a non-Black person. Especially when they are describing themselves - I know some Latino folks who use it. I think if I heard someone using the term as a dis, I would raise an eyebrow and pencil the individual into my list of Ignorant-Ass People. If that was the only thing they did, I might take them off… but it would be a hell of a first impression. Or, what monstro said.
True story: I once broke an “Unbreakable” comb trying to get my bush together. Granted, I didn’t have any grease in my hair, but damn!
Hmmmm. I don’t know if I see a lot of women like this, honestly. People often say one thing but their actions say something else. They may like kinky hair on someone else but don’t want their own hair to be that way. Otherwise (and this is the pro-nappy hair broad in me talking) why would they be wearing a straight wig or weave! It’s hard to not see this as being due, at least partially, to them being afraid of their own kinky hair or being conditioned to only see themselves as pretty with straight, flowing hair.
My cousins are like this. They ooh and ahh over my hair, but you can tell when listening to them that they don’t believe they’d look good sporting their own curls and kinks. Have you ever had someone compliment you on your hair and then immediately, without any provocation by you, offer up some reason why they can’t wear natural hair, too? As if they need to convince themselves why something as simple as not straightening anymore is something that other people can do, but not them? My cousins do this and it’s a little disconcerting.
The words Imus used have been around a lot longer than hip hop radio. Imus has been around. He knew the meaning of what he was saying even if it just slipped out. He is a resident of both NYC and Texas. He can be both kind-hearted and mean as a snake.
I have kinky hair right in front of my ears and my grandfather had kinky auburn hair. I assume that this means that he is part Black. Would that be a correct assumption based on genetic science?
There is a model from a foreign country – possibly Somalia – who always wears her hair short and natural. Her face is the most radiant face I have ever seen. She glows like she contains the sun. Does anyone know that woman? I want to know her name. I think she is the epitome of beauty.
Monstro, you are lovely. Your face is so open. Someone should write poetry about you. I didn’t know you were so young. Give me back that zinfandel!
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