The question:
If you were reasonably proficient at piano and flute, and desired to take up a third instrument, what would it be?
The setup:
My daughter is in 7th grade. She has been playing the piano for 8 years, and flute for 3. She is pretty proficient at and really enjoys playing both, is in the concert band at school, and plays with the jazz band on the infrequent occasions that they need a flute.
It strikes me that she might enjoy picking up a 3d instrument. Among my resons are that the high school she will go to does not have as great a music program as her jr high, and her options as a flautist in the school itself wil be limited. It strikes me flute may not be the most “flexible” instrument in terms of playing opportunities. For example, only a few of the jazz band pieces have flute parts. (She has asked to play keyboard for them next year.) Most importantly, tho, it strikes me as tho she is the kind of person to whom playing instruments just “makes sense.” The way some people have an ability for languages? And she seems to be at a stage where she picks things up pretty quickly.
So I thought I might offer her the opportunity (defintitely not push her) to explore other instruments. At this stage in her life she has the time and attitude to do so, which might not be the case as years go on. Basically, as long as she practices, I’ll rent/buy whatever instrument, pay for lessons and music, drive her to lessons, recitals, competitions, etc.
But my question is, what would be a good next instrument for her to try? Should she stay in the woodwind family? Or should she try a horn which would open up al of the brass? Or should she go somewhere completely different, say with a string instrument or guitar?
tell her to get a sax of some sort. They are always welcome and when she does play in the Jazz band and they need a flute she’s right there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a JAzz band that had a dedicated flute player, I’m sure there are some but not many. plus with the sax she should be able to switch easily to the Clarinet as well.
i’d go with a stringed… guitar or bass guitar. Of course if you can play guitar you can play bass (with hand strength). Believe me it’s hard to find good bassists. Bassists and drummers. Drums are Hella annoying when learning how to play though… I am prejudiced towards strings though, I’m a guitarist/vocalist/pianist.
punk snot dead,
broccoli! (eagerly awaiting ‘pianist’ jokes)
Yeah - I love sax, so I wouldn’t mind hearing one around. My second oldest has just started trumpet, and I think my 3d wants to start either clarinet or trombone next year. (She would like sax, but the way the bands go in our school system, they start all the reeds off with clarinet in 5th grade, and allow them to switch in 6th.) With sax, you have jazz, blues, rock, and symphonic all as options.
-Do you know about fingering or other technical aspects - are there any instruments that are really easy to pick up if you are already good at the flute?
-She’s a really good sight reader - are other instruments in the same key as flute?
-And what do you think of my overall question - should she stick with one “family” of instruments, and build upon that, or should she go way the hell to the other end of the spectrum, and then work her way back to the middle?
Maybe I’ll get her a harmonica for x-mas!
I’m kind of excited because she seems to have some decent ability at music, and seems to enjoy it. Once in a while I have to remind her to practice, but when she starts, she may keep going for an hour at each instrument. And at other times she will sit down at the piano 2-3 times a day. And she is at a point where she makes music that is really pleasant to listen to.
Right now we encourage and enable her to play in public, in different settings, before different audiences, either alone or with different groups of instruments, and playing different styles of music. And she seems to be very comfortable in such situations. While I don’t have any allusons that she is going to be a professional concert musician, I want to provide her the opportunity to explore ways music can enhance her life, whether in a vocation related to music, or for enjoyment.
You said, "
-Do you know about fingering or other technical aspects - are there any instruments that are really easy to pick up if you are already good at the flute?"
Any of the other woodwinds would be easy as the fingerings are almost exactly the same. The embouchoure (I always spell that word wrong) will change but she should pick that up quickly. Finding jobs as a woodwind player if you don’t teach are pretty competitive (like in professional symphonies and orchestras) but no where near as competitive as the piano.
“-She’s a really good sight reader - are other instruments in the same key as flute?”
This doesn’t really make a difference as the fingerings for “C” are the pretty much the same on the other woodwinds. The only difference is where they sound. That is how instruments in different keys work. The regular flute is in the key of C which is the standard pitch. Other woodwinds are in flat keys such as Eb or Bb for the most part (there are some odd exceptions here and there). That means when they finger and play a “c” on that instrument it plays either an Eb or Bb respectively.
“-And what do you think of my overall question - should she stick with one “family” of instruments, and build upon that, or should she go way the hell to the other end of the spectrum, and then work her way back to the middle?”
When she gets into college and pursues a musical carreer she will have to focus on one instrument primarily and will need to have at least one secondary instrument in addition to some minor piano skills. If she is extremely talented get her into private lessons focusing on one instrument and have them drill her into perfection. If she is interested in changing instruments as mentioned earlier drummers and bassists (particularly upright bassists if they play in tune) always have gigs lined up since there are so few bassists and drummers out there.
Yeah, broccoli, that’s a thought as well. I played bass myself for many a year, and we have an amp, bass guitar, and acoustic and electric 6 strings around the house. Basically, if you own your own equipment and show up reasonably on time, you can play bass for a number of bands, huh?
Her preferences right now are pretty strong for band and classical orchestral music right now, and she shows little interest in guitar.
A clarinet is the best thing to start off with if she want’s to go to Sax. It is also good that she knows the Flute.
IMO, a guitar would be hard on an 8yo to learn. It does take a considerable amount of hand strenght in the beginning, until your fingers become accoustomed the the strain. I had a hard enough time learning it with man hands as a 16 year old.
And a clarinet is also a great jazz instrument. Glem Millers big band sound was built aroung 4 saxes and a clarinet, after all.
Sticking to one family can be a good thing, but personally, I like to diversify. Aside from Clarinet, I also play Guitar and Bass, Peruvian flute (learning), Yidiyaki (also known as didgeridoo ;)) and an instrument I call a “plinky”. It looks like a mousetrap, has 5 metal bars of various lenghts across a bridge of various lenghts that make a cool little “Plinky” sound. I have no idea of its real name, but I bought it, the yidiyaki and the flute at different times from a craft stall in an Oxfam shop.
I took 8 years of piano while I was growing up, and played a variety of other instruments, including the flute and clarinet. From my personal experience (disclaimer: personal experience varies from person to person), I would say that if you take piano AND music theory with it, most other instruments aren’t as hard to pick up. That being said, things like the trumpet and trombone were a little harder to pick up, and I never got terribly proficient at them. The clarinet I picked up after the flute, and I found it rather easy.
I play guitar, bass, a bit of piano, and have pretty piss poor vocal abilities (but try anyway). However my main instrument is drums. As broccoli stated drummers and basists NEVER have a problem finding a band. I cannot stress how beneficial learning drums can be. Playing involves coordination and the most fundimental skill in music, TIMING. If a child learns drums he/she has a better understanding of timing and can therefore better understand music structure.
I play in a band with a guy who has NO sense of timing. When he plays a section by himself I have to lightly keep the beat for him otherwise he gets completely off time.
Try trumpet. It’s fingerings are the same as baritone, tuba, F-horn, and valve trombone. They’re also similar to French Horn. Learning it opens up a whole family of instruments.
If her HS happens to have a marching/field band, trumpets and other brass are in demand. Woodwinds, sad to say, are rather inconsequential in marching band venues.
Wow! what a lot of great input! And what a group of talented folk we have here.
In case there is any confusion, Al is in 7th grade, and will be 13 next month.
I don’t have any allusions of her being a professional orchestral musician (tho if it develops that she wishes to pursue that route, more power to her). The main thing is that I believe playing and appreciating music can add so much to your life. Also, she might be able to get a job concerning music in some way. She often says she wants to be a teacher. Well, she might want to be a Jr HS band leader like she has now. Or she might want to teach private piano/flute lessons on a part-time basis. Maybe she’ll want to volunteer for amateur musicals/bands/orchestras. Or, she might want to pursue a music composition/theory major in college. Heck, if she just gets some business degree, maybe she can try to apply that while working for an instrument manufacturer, music publisher, etc. Finaly, I had such a good time when I was in a band, I would like to help her experience the same thing (tho perhaps without quite as many drugs!)
Knowing how she is, I suspect what would appeal to her most would be to suggest that she pick somethng up that would complement what she already does. Such as clarinet - as you point out, the fingering is similar, the reading music is not a problemm, and it would make sense to her in terms of the types of music she now plays and the people she plays with. In fact, one of her best friends is a pretty decent clarinetist.
Basically, what I would like to encourage in her is an attitude that “making music” is something she can do and likes to do, whether it is playing a concerto on the piano, amusing herself on the sitar, banging in a drum circle, manipulating a syntesizer, or making her own instruments. I think it would be cool if she developed an attitude where she could be 30 years old and say, “Gee, I always wanted to play the banjo. I’ll get a hold of one and figure out how to play it.”
I’m throwing my vote in for the saxophone. The fingerings for the lower 2 octaves of the flute are almost exactly the same as the saxophone so the difficulty lies in learning to use a “force embouchure” as apposed to the relatively free embouchure of the flute. The clarinet embouchure is much tighter and can be more difficult to adjust to at first. Jazz Saxophonists need to know how to play both clarinet and flute later on, but in a Jr. level jazz program the saxophone is the way to go.
A sax is much more likely to be featured in Marching Band than a flute, in a solo or soli situation.
Just a note – start on the alto sax. The others all use the same fingering system and could be moved to later, and the alto would probably be the easiest to start on.
I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement that learning the piano helps with learning other instruments. The piano was my first instrument and other instruments came along much easier when I started band in school. Later on in college, when I was required to learn all of the orchestral/band instruments, I was miles ahead of other students who hadn’t studied piano.
Ditto on the sax - if your daughter can figure out the fingering on a flute, sax should be no problem. I see a lot of sax players doubling on flute.
I also have to agree that even though she might not become a drummer (who knows?) learning to play the drums will give her a solid foundation in rhythm that is sorely lacking in a lot of musicians. An added benefit is independance and coordination bewteen limbs which will at least help her piano playing. Independance in a rubbing your belly patting your head while walking and chewing gum sort of way.
She should definitely stick with piano as well, since if (down the road) she wants to go into composition or arranging, the keyboard will be her primary tool.
Guitar is also an awesome instrument. Six strings, 20 or so frets, and a universe of music that can be explored. Even though I was “raised” a drummer, the guitar would be my one ‘desert island’ instrument.
I agree with sqrlcub about private lessons - if the HS music program is weak, and if she wants to play in college (whether music major or not), private lessons are a must.
Perhaps she should audition for regional or area bands in your state - it’s a situation she’ll have to get used to. The downside is that it’s a pressure situation and you can burn out doing audition after audition.
Just the other day she told me she was going to challenge someone to move up a chair or so. Right now she is 2d chair, 2d flute. The band leader says she’s probably the 4th best (out of 8) flute, and he really likes having a strong 1-2 chair in both flute sections. But she says the 1st flutes have more interesting parts, and they always choose soloists from the 1st flutes. So she is thinking about challenging the 8th grade girl who is currently 4th chair 1st flute.
So she describes a situation where she identifies a specific flautist ahead of her, basically says, “I want to take her place,” they both play before the director, and if she succeeds, she moves up and the other girl moves down. Now, I can just imagine some bitter 40 yr old complaining to friends and co-workers about “That little 7th grade Dinsdale bitch who stole my seat in 8th grade.” Man, that sounds cut throat! Even for a guy whose idea of fun is a bit of friendly sparring. Makes me proud of her that she enjoys it so much that she has such strong feelings about it and is willing to be somewhat agressive about it. Pretty different from her old man!
We are really lucky with her piano teacher. She stresses enjoying playing, and playing with emotion/dynamics/etc. Instead of trying to turn out a future professional musician, she emphasizes helping her students enjoy music and make it a part of their lives. So she makes the kids develop repertoires they can play witout sheetmusic anytime they find a piano. And she really stresses “musicality” instead of just banging out complex technique (if that makes any sense.)
So I can imagine her taking piano for some time to come. In fact, if we ever need to punish her, all we have to do is threaten to takke her piano lessons away. Which doesn’t suck! But I’m wondering about at some time substituting another instrument for her private flute lessons (if ADDING them would be too much). Because in her current school system, I see the marching band being a lot of fun in HS, but not a real musical challenge for her. As I said, I don’t want to push her, but I certainly want to provide opportunities.
A little personal experience here. I started on piano when I was little. When it was time for band, I took sax. Never regretted it–learned all the various types: alto, bari, tenor, soprano…
Loved it. When I got into HS, there were a LOT of sax players and my band instructor took me aside and told me that he wanted to move me. Not because I wasn’t as good (2nd chair, thank you very much), but because he thought I could pick up another instrument.
He put me on French horn. I loved it. Marching season came around and he gave me a mellophone. The best time I ever had–playing that thing.
Just a few months ago I picked up a guitar. I love it.
My point is that if you foster in your daughter a love of music and a healthy curiousity about her potential, she can play anything she sets her mind to. Take her to a good music store. Let her look around. Let her put her little mitts on some different things and see what speaks to her.
Also, my folks gave me voice lessons and I have thanked them more than once. Those lessons taught me that I could make music on my own–even if I didn’t have an instrument.
I’m excited for your daughter. She’s going to have a blast.
Yeah, I say saxophone, too, and alto’s the easiest for her both to hold and schlep around. Fingerings are similar. Opens up both marching band and jazz. Doesn’t do much for classical, but with flute and piano in her bag of tricks, she doesn’t really need another classical instrument.
Guitar wouldn’t be bad to know, if she’s interested in getting into an entirely different musical world…it’ll follow her around for the rest of her life, and give her entry into the exciting world of pot-smoking liberal intellectual beatniks.
You’re lucky…MY daughter (10 years old) disliked her piano lessons (although she still noodles around on it), and actively HATES playing the trumpet now. She wants to drop the required instrumental music program at school as soon as she can (7th grade) and take Chorus instead, which her ol’ man reads as “The Unmusical Types Caterwauling Tunelessly.”
That’s actually a pretty good idea… anyway, this has been mentioned already, but I’d go with bass cause a lot of kinds of music use bass; classical, rock, jazz, whatever… also bassists are uncommon (only two bassists including me) and people that play acoustic too are even less common (I’m the only one). And it’s cool.
Twisty, that sounds like a kalimba or “thumb piano”. I see quite a few at the Faire booths around here. They’re fun to play, but not exactly Carnegie Hall material.
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I agree that taking her to a music shop and letting her look around is a good idea–that’s how I’ve acquired most of my collection of instruments. You might try to find recordings of different instrumental solos on the web and play them for her–it helps to know what an instrument can sound like in the right hands.
