A question for theists who believe in an omniscient God

[Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper]

@as_u_wish

I’ll try to answer from my own experience. But I fear that this won’t make sense to those of you who have a different concept of God or a different relationship with Him.

Most of the time there is great comfort in knowing that God knows me more intimately than I know myself. His love for me is utterly “unrealistic”–he has no illusions about my weaknesses or failures, yet He loves me. He is never disillusioned with me the way I so often am with myself. It is the ultimate experience of intimacy without shame. I don’t need to pretend or hide or put up a false front of goodness that I have not achieved. I can trust that He will continue His “improvement project,” molding me into His image, using all the events of my life as raw material.

But I think all of us flee or hide from God at times–despite the fact that it is impossible. We do this when we don’t want to follow His way or when we have done something we know is totally unacceptable. Scripture shows us that this is a common experience. In the images of Genesis we see Adam and Eve hiding from God because of their disobedience and self-will. Yet He sought them out. We are told later that Jonah fled from God. Yet he could not escape. In the New Testament we hear that light came into the world but men preferred darkness because their deeds were evil. Yet we are told that the darkness could not overcome the light.

To sum up, yes, there are times when the thought of God knowing all can make us shudder and flee and try to hide. These are the times when we are in rebellion. But a shift in attitude, a surrender and repentance, flips the whole thing around, restoring the relationship and making the intimacy a delight again. The comfort or horror of intimacy with God depends on whether we are seeking to follow His ways or whether we are in active rebellion.

I know I shouldn’t but I have to say, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for a while.

[Malleus_Incus_Stapes]

[quote=“Lobohan, post:13, topic:549493”]

@Shodan

I’m honestly asking. I know if I believed a supernatural judge was observing me at all times I’d be less abrasive. Thankfully, I don’t.

@Lobohan

Omniscience would suggest that simultaneously he has total knowledge as if you were of particular interest. And he’d have a perfect memory for every minor mistake and hateful thought you ever had. Every sin would be covering you like a post-it note until absolved, every muttered curse and momentary doubt about Him standing out in high contrast.

If I believed in this sort of being I’d live a very different life than I live.

That’s kinda the point of religion, I thought. “God is watching, so behave yourselves”.

Of course, some systems of belief do this better than others. Plenty of people on this board have talked about how they were raised in religions where the constant message was “God is watching, so if you do the slightest little bad thing you’ll burn in hell forever.” That is not something that would drive most people to be better people. That is the sort of message that makes people say, “To heck with this. I’m not perfect, therefore I’m doomed anyway, therefore I might as well do whatever I want.”

[BigT]

@Hades

@BigT

Why? If he’s omnibenevolent, then you lose all reasons for privacy concerns. The only reason privacy has any value is that you are afraid somebody is going to do something bad with the information given.

No. I don’t particularly want anyone staring at me at all times, even if I’m just sitting here on the couch with my laptop and listening to music. It would be invasive and creepy.

No skin off of my nose if you want to be irrational about it. Face it, the mere act of watching you does not hurt you at all.

Seriously–I challenge you to give me a rational reason why you would care. If the watcher never does anything with the information, how does it harm you?

[hadziin]

[quote=“Malleus_Incus_Stapes, post:22, topic:549493”]

@Lobohan

That’s kinda the point of religion, I thought. “God is watching, so behave yourselves”.

Of course, some systems of belief do this better than others. Plenty of people on this board have talked about how they were raised in religions where the constant message was “God is watching, so if you do the slightest little bad thing you’ll burn in hell forever.” That is not something that would drive most people to be better people. That is the sort of message that makes people say, “To heck with this. I’m not perfect, therefore I’m doomed anyway, therefore I might as well do whatever I want.”

That’s the nice thing about being an Apache. In our way we believe that you have a spirit body and a physical body. You and you alone have the choice of walking either the high road or the low one. The high road strengthens the spirit body. The low one seeks comfort and belongings. The creator really doesn’t care which way you go. If you choose the low path you just get sent back to the foot of the line until you get it right. Matter of fact In the Apache Lifeway one does not “worship” in the sense that most would recognize. How we live and interact with the rest of creation are inseparable from what you would call spirituality.
But The Responsibility for our actions are ours alone. No evil one to blame if we do wrong no god to thank if we do good. Also we Never ask the spirit world for help for ourselves, only for others.

[JThunder]

@Lemur866

So why do people who believe in God go to hotel rooms with male prostitutes?

Because it’s easy to forget that God’s watching, or to deliberately pretend that he isn’t. The human capacity to ignore the inconvenient is most astonishing.

[Malacandra]

@Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper

@as_u_wish

I’ll try to answer from my own experience. But I fear that this won’t make sense to those of you who have a different concept of God or a different relationship with Him.

Most of the time there is great comfort in knowing that God knows me more intimately than I know myself. His love for me is utterly “unrealistic”–he has no illusions about my weaknesses or failures, yet He loves me. He is never disillusioned with me the way I so often am with myself. It is the ultimate experience of intimacy without shame. I don’t need to pretend or hide or put up a false front of goodness that I have not achieved. I can trust that He will continue His “improvement project,” molding me into His image, using all the events of my life as raw material.

But I think all of us flee or hide from God at times–despite the fact that it is impossible. We do this when we don’t want to follow His way or when we have done something we know is totally unacceptable. Scripture shows us that this is a common experience. In the images of Genesis we see Adam and Eve hiding from God because of their disobedience and self-will. Yet He sought them out. We are told later that Jonah fled from God. Yet he could not escape. In the New Testament we hear that light came into the world but men preferred darkness because their deeds were evil. Yet we are told that the darkness could not overcome the light.

To sum up, yes, there are times when the thought of God knowing all can make us shudder and flee and try to hide. These are the times when we are in rebellion. But a shift in attitude, a surrender and repentance, flips the whole thing around, restoring the relationship and making the intimacy a delight again. The comfort or horror of intimacy with God depends on whether we are seeking to follow His ways or whether we are in active rebellion.

I know I shouldn’t but I have to say, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for a while.

I disagree, and I find your comment mean-spirited; though obviously you don’t have to agree with as_u_wish, what’s the point of posting simply to laugh at him/her?

[Nava]

No, not any more than knowing that Gravity insists in pulling me close to the floor, the bitch! Or that light insists in lighting things up, or the wind in blowing. Yeah, gravity and the wind and light aren’t conscious like I consider God is, but still, it’s all part of How Things Are.

[as_u_wish]

@Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper

@as_u_wish

I’ll try to answer from my own experience. But I fear that this won’t make sense to those of you who have a different concept of God or a different relationship with Him.

Most of the time there is great comfort in knowing that God knows me more intimately than I know myself. His love for me is utterly “unrealistic”–he has no illusions about my weaknesses or failures, yet He loves me. He is never disillusioned with me the way I so often am with myself. It is the ultimate experience of intimacy without shame. I don’t need to pretend or hide or put up a false front of goodness that I have not achieved. I can trust that He will continue His “improvement project,” molding me into His image, using all the events of my life as raw material.

But I think all of us flee or hide from God at times–despite the fact that it is impossible. We do this when we don’t want to follow His way or when we have done something we know is totally unacceptable. Scripture shows us that this is a common experience. In the images of Genesis we see Adam and Eve hiding from God because of their disobedience and self-will. Yet He sought them out. We are told later that Jonah fled from God. Yet he could not escape. In the New Testament we hear that light came into the world but men preferred darkness because their deeds were evil. Yet we are told that the darkness could not overcome the light.

To sum up, yes, there are times when the thought of God knowing all can make us shudder and flee and try to hide. These are the times when we are in rebellion. But a shift in attitude, a surrender and repentance, flips the whole thing around, restoring the relationship and making the intimacy a delight again. The comfort or horror of intimacy with God depends on whether we are seeking to follow His ways or whether we are in active rebellion.

I know I shouldn’t but I have to say, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for a while.

I appreciate your candor. As I said in my first sentence, I really don’t expect a majority of readers here at SDMB to be comfortable with my answer. I’m talking about something that occurs within a relationship. As we know from our human relationships, what passes between parent and child or two spouses often looks obscure from outside. Scripture tells us that the wisdom of God will often appear foolish.

My response also may seem foolish to you, but I offer it as a thought for you to ponder.

The question isn’t whether what I wrote is funny or whether it fits with your current worldview. The question is whether it is true and truly stated. Is there truth in the statement that human intimacy is either pleasurable or uncomfortable based on our own behavior? Can that experience (that truth?) be extrapolated into divine-human intimacy?

[Thudlow_Boink]

@as_u_wish

@Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper

I know I shouldn’t but I have to say, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for a while.

I appreciate your candor. As I said in my first sentence, I really don’t expect a majority of readers here at SDMB to be comfortable with my answer. I’m talking about something that occurs within a relationship. As we know from our human relationships, what passes between parent and child or two spouses often looks obscure from outside. Scripture tells us that the wisdom of God will often appear foolish.

My response also may seem foolish to you, but I offer it as a thought for you to ponder.

Heh. When Baron Skinley made that comment, my reaction was, “I’ll bet it sounds funny to him in the same way that things that people who are in loving relationships say to or about one another sound funny to someone who has never been in love.”

[ITR_champion]

I think that the response from as_u_wish was brilliant and really captures everything that I would want to say in response to the OP. Knowing that God is watching over me is a very positive, comforting, uplifting thing. When I was an atheist, much of my sadness, loneliness, and depression was caused by the fact that I didn’t have anyone who could truly understand me, since communication with other humans was always far from perfect. Now my life is so much better.

[WordMan]

@Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper

I know I shouldn’t but I have to say, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for a while.

How inappropriate and rude - and with a smilie; thanks.

To be clear: I am not a believer at all and regard questions like the OP more as Christian Koans - it’s the not answer, it’s the pondering of an answer that matters.

But thanks for your “atheist-er than thou” contribution. At least *try *to represent a better level discourse; it’s in part why at least a few of us are here…

[Malleus_Incus_Stapes]

@JThunder

@Lemur866

So why do people who believe in God go to hotel rooms with male prostitutes?

Because it’s easy to forget that God’s watching, or to deliberately pretend that he isn’t. The human capacity to ignore the inconvenient is most astonishing.

Not to mention our incredible talent for rationalization.

[cmkeller]

It’s not something that weighs on my mind, unless after the fact I’m feeling guilty about having done something wrong. It’s just like…air, you know? It’s all around us, and it comes in handy for breathing and stuff, but I’m never thinking, “Boy, check out all that nitrogen and oxygen around me.”

In the back of my mind, I certainly believe and know he is watching me, but I’m busy, and my conscious mind has enough to keep up with without worrying too much that there’s an omniscient being watching me.

[Mudz]

as_you_wish’s response is a wonderful answer to the OP.

And, it would seem, not much more need be added to it, since most of the rest of the discussion is about Baron Skinley Von Clipper’s remark.

[DocCathode]

Sure, I believe G-d sees every cruel word I speak, every selfish action I take, and every promise I fail to live up to. BUT, He also sees every act of loving kindness, every ounce of charity I give, and every righteous action. I try to live so that the second ledger is much larger than the first.