A Question for Theists

Great Debates
1

Most theists believe in and have some mental picture of an afterlife, generally one in which the “good” and “bad” are appropriately treated favorably or unfavorably.

If you were 1.) confident in your belief in the existence of a god or gods and 2.) at the same time certain that you had no chance of being treated favorably in the afterlife (e.g., after church, met by an angel who promptly and without humor informed you that your place in Hell was assured), would you continue to adhere to your theistic beliefs?

In other words, do you think piousness can be based on love of principle/reason alone, or is the promise of reward in the afterlife a necessary ingredient?

2

Well, first of all, not all theists believe in an afterlife. Many (perhaps most) Jews, even devout ones, don’t believe there’s a Heaven or Hell. When Abraham was asked to kill Isaac, did he console himself with the idea that Isaac would go to Heaven? No- because as far as Abraham was concerned, there was no afterlife. His only reason for obeying God’s commandments was that… well, God is Lord of all creation, and a man is obliged to do whatever He commands, without expecting any reward.

No question about it, Abraham’s willingness to obey God without expecting anything in return makes him a most admirable man. In theory, ALL of us should be willing to do God’s bidding without any reward.

That said, to us Christians, the point is moot. Heaven is part of the package that Jesus presented us with. It’s noit as if Jesus told his disciples, “Love one another,” and they yelled back, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what’s in it for US?” If WE demanded that Jesus grant us eternal life in exchange for our obedience, we’d be contemptibly impudent. But as it is, Jesus promised it to us, on his own.

So, while we Christians would be duty-bound to obey God’s commandments even if there were no Heaven waiting for us… well, we’re very lucky! Whether we’re worthy of an eternal reward or not, God chose to offer it to us! Thus, we’re not too worried about an angel coming along and telling us, “No afterlife for you!”

Mind you, even if you DO believe in Heaven and Hell, living a virtuous life doesn’t get any easier.

3

In christian belief, at least, you are never 100% forbidden from heaven. Theoretically a mass murderer could find forgiveness moments before the switch at his execution was thrown.

I forget the prerequisites but I believe they are something along the lines of admitting Jesus as your savior and being truly repentent for your sins (remember you can’t fool God so just saying you’re repentent for your sins won’t cut it unless you believe it as well).

I can’t say for certain what other religion’s take on this would be but I would imagine that you are supposed to live a virtuous life for virtue’s sake alone and not as the work you have to do because some payoff lies at the end of the road. I’d even go so far as to venture a guess that God might take a dim view of the person who didn’t have good in his/her heart but rather did good only as a self serving mechanism for their own advancement.

To the OP I will say even if I somehow knew I was destined for hell and knew that there was no avoiding it I wouldn’t start doing ‘bad’ things. For instance, I wouldn’t kill someone because I believe killing is fundamentally wrong (unless, of course, you are trying to kill me in which case all bets are off). I don’t need the threat of hell to make me behave.

4

[hijack]Well, I would question it. I don’t generally consider people who kill children to be “most admirable” even if they firmly believe God told 'em to do it.[/hijack]

As for the OP, I suspect most theists would say that obeying God is its own reward. There’s even a story (that I’ve told before) about the rabbi who commits a sin so horrible that an angel does tell him he’ll never get to heaven. The rabbi begins to sing and dance and praise G-d, and onlookers are amazed. “But you’ll never get to heaven,” they say. “Why are you so happy?” The rabbi replies: “All my life I followed the miztvot, never knowing if I did so out of love and awe of G-d or for hope of reward. Now when I obey the miztvot I will know that I truly do it out of love of G-d! Praise G-d!”