From about 50 BC, to 200 AD, Roman soldiers wore armor called “lorica segmentada”-this was a set of steel bads, held together with leather straps, which covered a man’s torso, with additional segments protecting his shoulders.
The interesting thing was that this type of armor could be stored/packed flat, and donned fairly quickly.
Bu the middle of the 2nd century it had been abandoned-why was this?
Was it too heavy? Or had the Roman army adopted different tactics-whih made the old armor too cumbersome?
By the time of the fall (of the western empire), Roman soldiers were very different in appearence-was this because heavy infantry was now seless?
It was expensive and time consuming to make and hard to take care of. Plus, the Roman army was starting to turn from an infantry focus to a cavalry focus.
Plus, I think there might have been a change in the weaponry of the people they fought; perhaps the lorica hamata (chain mail) was more effective relative to the lorica segmentata?
I’m sure one of the local historians might be able to offer more information. I can only speak as to my experience. lorica segmentada is banded mail. It’s metal strips riveted to leather. It is rather light but it doesn’t distribute it’s weight very well so is unbearable to wear without padding. It is a pain to maintain in wearable condition. The metal strips are individually heavy and different movements can give the strips a lot of leverage against the leather base causing rivets to pop or stitches to be undone. So anytime you plan on using it for a few days you’ll spend an hour or two fixing the damage you’ve done.
It isn’t all that fast to put on and doesn’t compact as well as you’ve presented. It’s 3-4 pieces and you need to lace them together. You can put it on yourself but it’s a lot easier if you have someone else stitch it up.
During similar periods it was used chainmail and scalemail were also used.
Chainmail is extremely durable by comparison, repairs from simply wearing it are minimal. It takes no time to put it on or take it off. It doesn’t offer as much protection but is much more comfortable to wear.
I understand scalemail ends up falling somewhere between the other two. I don’t have much experience wearing or maintaining it.
My guess overall is while the banded mail did offer extra protection for the soldiers it was just a larger hassle to maintain it. The Romans dominated with legion tactics personal protection wasn’t as important when they outnumbered their opponents marched in formation with shields. Fielding the largest number of men as quickly as possible was more important for crushing barbarian and civil uprisings. They evolved into armors that were easier to maintain and quicker to put on, banded mail just wasn’t that. Towards the end of the 2nd century chainmail was the way to go.
It is ultimately unclear where and when and how many Romans wore segmentata and chainmail. The notion that legionaries wore segmentata and auxilia chainmail may come from Trajan’s column only and reflect either one single army only or artistic vision. Legionaries are easy to depict in segmentata because it was uniquely Roman and it makes them easily recognazible. But as far as we know, the majority of legionaries may have used the chainmail all the time.
A minor nitpick - there’s no such think as “chainmail”. The correct term is simply “mail”; terms like “banded mail”, “scale mail” and “plate mail” (rather than “plate-and-mail”) are all Gygaxian on origin and are historically incorrect.
Yep and that can be pointed out in every thread till the end of eternity but it wouldn’t change the fact it’s common usage today.
I know, I know. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop tilting at that particular windmill.
You could start a letter writing campaign…
…by snail mail.
I’m no historian, but we do know that they originally wore mail (lorica hamata) in the Republican period, and up through the early Empire, at which point, the Lorica Segmentata came into being, and then later in the Imperial period, say, Constantinian-era, Lorica Hamata became ubiquitous again.
Nobody’s really sure what proportion of troops ever wore Lorica Segmentata in the interim however.
Also, a troglodyte is a cave dweller, not a kind of lizard person. Also, a Myrmidon isn’t a rank of fighter, but a name for the warriors of a particular cultural and historical context.
But, hell, frankly I think Gygax did tremendous good by assigning specific meanings to terms that were once much more vague and often interchangable – gnome, goblin, hobgoblin, kobold, imp, fiend, etc.
Just because he refused you at his table at GenCon 1979 means that you have to take The Man down.
P.S:BTW, you anti-Paladin half-Orc sucks. I’ve always wanted to tell you that.
We called them “Avengers” back in my day, kid. Now get off my lawn.
The OED has uses of the term “chainmail” and “platemail” from the early 19th century. So its probably not what the ancient Romans called them (but thats probably true of a lot of terms we use to describe ancient Rome, just because a term didn’t exist in a time period doesn’t mean its “incorrect”) but its not so recent as to be from D&D either.
Can someone link to some pictures?
(Of the Roman armor at issue, I mean. I know what a half-Orc looks like.)
I’m sorry, but this is pretty much 100% unadulterated prime quality manure. I think you have a case of your personal “Seg” being crap, rather than all of them. A real Seg is held together by leather straps. There are no stitches anywhere. You are supposed to make it so it fits tightly around your upper body, distributing the weight evenly. The only padding needed is a leather reinforcement on the shoulders and some cloth around your neck.
I’ve worn mine for a week on end, 8 hour days, on several different occasions. I’ve dug trenches in it, slept in it, fought mock battles in it, been beaten to hell by spears, glaives, axes, swords, shields and angry swedes for several days in a row. I’ve never - not once - damaged it in any way shape or form other than slight dents and scratches. The only maintenance needed - which can, I’ll admit, be time-consuming - is oiling and rust-removal.
You put in on just like you would a vest. You buckle a strap across your chest, and knot five laces down front. Takes three minutes. Easiest armor I’ve ever put.
It’s faster if you have someone to hold it up while you put your arms where the arms are meant to go, but we generally do that for each other anyway.
A roman Hamata (chain) weighs somewhere between three and four times as much as a Seg, and doesn’t distribute that weight at all. All of it is on your shoulders. It’s a royal PITA to put on, because it weighs too much to just but on like t-shirt, and you have to do a weird, bent-over dancing and hopping maneuver to get it off. Never again.
Lorica segmentata:
Lorica hamata:
Thanks. Surprisingly little protection for one’s dong.
So it’d be a chain letter?
First of all, Roman combat emphasized the use of the shield in tight formation; body armor was more or less for backup.
Second of all, remember that these were foot soldiers, who were expected to walk dozens of miles a day in a Mediterranean climate. Few pure infantrymen throughout history have worn heavier armor.