particually those well versed in their holy book…
do angels have free will? cite verses / scripture please. i’m in an ongoing arguement on this.
personal opinion… just a guess… no. not sure why though.
but if they don’t have free will, how did lucifer do what he did?
The fall of Lucifer is not in the Bible.
I think maybe you should elaborate a bit on that Diogenes; a lot of people are going to disagree without understanding your statement (and citing Isaiah 14).
From the Book of Revelations, Chapter 12
7: Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
8: but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world – he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
You could read into the passage that dragon had angels, and the good guys had angels, and that they were simply under the command of one or the other. Or, you could infer from the line “there was no longer any place for them in heaven” that the angels had to have chosen to side with the dragon, and therefore exercising free will.
Lucifer (Shining One) is a reference to the King(s) of Babylon.
Satan the Devil is the fallen angel. Well, one of them.
Genesis 6:2 may help your arguement for free will.
The term sons of God is generally assumed to mean angels. Well, I guess I should say, by what I’ve seen and heard, it applies to angels.
Medeval Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas wondered the same thing. Here’s his answer, from his work “Summa Theologica”
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/105903.htm
To summarize, he said that angels do have free will, because, firstly, free will is one of those things that makes up human dignity, and because angels have more dignity than men do, it follows that they have free will. Also, he argues all things act from a act of will. Some things don’t act on their own will, like an arrow, which acts from the archer’s will. Some things act from a will, but not a free one, like the sheep, who is compelled not through free choice, but by its nature, to run from wolves. However, all things with intellect have free will, because free will consists of understanding choices and deciding which choice is more good, and angels have intellect.
To my understanding, they used to have free will but after 1/3 of the Angels rebelled they dont have free will anymore.
The fall of Lucifer is mentioned in Isaiah 14.
“12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God…”
Lucifer also had followers who were cast into Hell with him. I assume that they chose to follow him of their own free-will, and were not merely assigned to his department.
What is your arguement over angelic free-will? Why does it matter?
The Bible isn’t written for angels. It’s for mankind. Therefore there isn’t much mention of the rules that angels must follow. Angels are generally considered to be messengers between God and Man. But they probably have other functions that aren’t listed in scripture.
Minor nit, but Isaiah 14:4 clearly identifies the recipient of the message as the King of Babylon. So when the name/title Lucifer is used, meaning “Shining One,” it is not Satan being spoken to. The poetic (even metaphoric) pronouncement of the fall is concerning the King(s) of Babylon. Lucifer does not equal Satan.
Now that that is out of the way…
That’s how the King James Version translates Isaiah 14:12.
Here’s how the New International Version translates Isaiah 14:12:
Other translations have that second line start with “O Shining Star” or “O Shining One” or “O star of the morning” or “Daystar”. The word “Lucifer” is Latin; it originally meant light-bnearer but eventually also came to mean morning star. I don’t know what Hebrew word is translated as “Lucifer” in the KJV (I don’t have access to an Interlinear Bible right now), but I do remember that it meant something similar.
Most scholars agree that this refers to one of the nicknames of King Nebuchadnezar.
And bless my soul! Looky what I found out about Isaiah 14:12 by looking at the Amplified Bible translation at bible.gospelcom.net:
Thank you! That’s what I said in the 4th post to this thread.
But, it’s nice to have referenced cites.
Again, a (non-sarcastic) thank you.
This is the first time I ever heard that Lucifer != Satan. Interesting. Is this idea accepted by most biblical scholars today?
I earned a master’s degree in divinity school, where Lucifer=Satan was more or less taken for granted.
But divinity school != Biblical scholars, I thought.